tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post1500488487112159645..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: On My Critics, Round 2Joan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-76424873447123162252014-10-26T08:53:46.315-10:002014-10-26T08:53:46.315-10:00Joan - I marvel at your ability to cut to the quic...Joan - I marvel at your ability to cut to the quick and hoist the blowhards on their own petards. Why aren't you writing for the NYT? You are that good!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-64454955097012272592014-10-25T12:48:27.106-10:002014-10-25T12:48:27.106-10:00A year ago, on his facebook page, Ed Coll posts An...A year ago, on his facebook page, Ed Coll posts Andrea Brower's picture and antiGMO Huffington post along with the comment that <br />Andrea is an articulate <br />environmentalist. This is how Ed <br />Coll can have it both ways with his <br />progressive buddies. He posts an effective propaganda piece with the neutral comment for deniability.<br />He doesn't like it when I poke a stick into his cage of duplicity; but, that just makes it all the more enjoyable!<br />Pete AntonsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-43324014461454686972014-10-25T08:30:42.617-10:002014-10-25T08:30:42.617-10:00My position on the bill has always been clear. I n...My position on the bill has always been clear. I never used the language you accuse me of. What has been smoked out is you Mr. Antonson and your willingness to engage in distorting other peoples positions to make your points. Good day Sir!ekcollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396807815655716254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-20591153348833339832014-10-24T19:20:00.505-10:002014-10-24T19:20:00.505-10:00Very good Ed Coll! Glad we could smoke you out on...Very good Ed Coll! Glad we could smoke you out on your opposition to 2491 and all the vile lynch mob activities associated with it.<br />Now, we expect you to act like it instead of giving bullshit objections to Joan's spot on descriptions of the lynch mob, or trying to hide your position in the bullshit language of some academic neutral poser in post after post, or using the language the 2491 lynch mob prefers (eg "chem, chemical, drench, poison, etc."). <br />Oh yeah, we look forward to the "Real Ed Coll" rather than the one building deniability for his lynch mob friends!<br />Pete Antonson Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-88117463229519147362014-10-24T15:32:17.842-10:002014-10-24T15:32:17.842-10:00ANTONSON 1:15 PM- “It's hard to tell from the...ANTONSON 1:15 PM- “It's hard to tell from the unclearly written; but, Ed Coll's claim of being misquoted is easily checked by referring to the post above where his writing of "chem/seed" is in italics. If that is a misquote, then the problem is with Joan's post and the objection should say so.<br />COLL - It is easily checked but you must look in the right place. Here is where Mr. Antonson mis-quoted me;<br /> <br />ANTONSON “1:27 PM Antonson said - “Please understand that Ed Coll and many others have adapted a mostly recent tactic of referring to Westside Biotech Agriculture as "The Chemical Companies." <br /><br />COLL - and here is what I wrote and Joan reposted <br /><br />COLL - “You say you have no soft soft spot for the chem/seed companies yet the bulk of your criticism is aimed at the anti-movement.” <br /><br />COLL - And here is where Mr. Antonson admits that he intentionally mis-quoted me to make his point - <br /><br />ANTONSON 10:48 PM - “Ed Coll is convicting me of a falsehood while acquitting himself on the technicality that he wrote "Chem/Seed Company" rather than the generalized "Chemical Company" attribution I gave to him and others in making my point.”<br /><br />COLL - In addition you then associate your mis-quote with “Westside Biotech Agriculture” out of whole cloth. Is that clear enough for you Mr. Antonson? Finally Mr. Antonson leaves us with this totally bogus accusation without a scintilla of evidence-<br /><br />ANTONSON 1:15PM - The subpoint here is that Ed Coll, despite attempts to disguise his partisanship, was and is a supporter of 2491.<br /> <br />COLL - As you have admitted in your own words (10:48) you intentionally mis-quoted me to make your point. Why should anyone believe your unsubstantiated claim now? Ask anyone (red shirt, blue shirt, politicians, look at my past posts on Kauai Eclectic and you will find I opposed this flawed bill. I am in complete agreement with Joan’s analysis and the court’s decision. I suppose in your Alice in Wonderland world of “Still beating your wife?” pop-communication theory opposition means support, and no means yes.<br />I think Leonard Cohen expresses my feelings on the bill and this dialogue;<br /><br />Your servant here, he has been told<br />To say it clear, to say it cold<br />It's over, it ain't going<br />Any further<br /><br />FIN<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-17409205295928743772014-10-24T13:15:50.446-10:002014-10-24T13:15:50.446-10:00It's hard to tell from the unclearly written; ...It's hard to tell from the unclearly written; but, Ed Coll's claim of being misquoted is easily checked by referring to the post above where his writing of "chem/seed" is in <br />italics. If that is a misquote, then <br />the problem is with Joan's post and <br />the objection should say so.<br />The subpoint here is that Ed Coll, despite attempts to disguise his <br />partisanship, was and is a supporter of 2491. His next reply can be an <br />opportunity to clearly deny that or to <br />address the vileness on Kauai Joan <br />so accurately articulated with <br />something other than a "Look Ma, <br />everyone is doing it" litany of misdeeds not taking place on Kauai!<br />Pete AntonsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-78145698599829741522014-10-24T10:15:54.086-10:002014-10-24T10:15:54.086-10:00Antonson said,...
“Ed Coll is convicting me of a f...Antonson said,...<br />“Ed Coll is convicting me of a falsehood while acquitting himself on the technicality that he wrote "Chem/Seed Company" rather than the generalized "Chemical Company" attribution I gave to him and others in making my point. Can we get more disingenuous than that?”<br /><br />REPLY - Apparently so by intentionally misquoting me to make a point and intengtionally associating your misquote with “Westside Biotech Agriculture” which I never even mentioned.” A fact is not a technicality. You intentionally misquoted me to make a point and said so yourself.<br /><br />Antonson said,<br />“After all, you're more likely to hear about "framing" in George Lakoff's Cognitive Science class at Cal Berkeley than in Ed Coll's community college class. It's a little advanced, even for my fellow Speech Pathologists!”<br /><br />REPLY - I taught computer science not cognitive science. I agree with Chomsky’s assessment of Lakoff when he said Lakoff has "virtually no comprehension of the work he is discussing" and regarding Frameing I prefer Irving Goffman’s opus “Frame Analysis: An Essay on the Organization of Experience” whom unlike Lakoff does comprehend what he was talking about.<br /><br />Antonson said,...“Let me com college it down for you: when Nixon said: "I am not a crook!" he famously, and unintentionally, framed himself as a crook! If I were to say to you: "Don't think of Ed Coll as a Big Weenie!" where does the gentle reader's mind immediately go?”<br /><br />REPLY - To Character assisnation and disparaging a community college? If I said Mr. Antonson admits intentionally misquoted a writer and then associates his misquote with something a writer never said to make his own point where does the readers mind immediately go? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-81848657392256744732014-10-23T22:38:23.255-10:002014-10-23T22:38:23.255-10:00Ed Coll is convicting me of a falsehood while acqu...Ed Coll is convicting me of a falsehood while acquitting himself on the technicality that he wrote "Chem/Seed Company" rather than the generalized "Chemical Company" attribution I gave to him and others in making my point. Can we get more disingenuous than that? My point was about sneaking in the word "chemical" to frame the argument (a fairly recent, but, mushrooming tactic).<br /><br />After all, you're more likely to hear about "framing" in George Lakoff's Cognitive Science class at Cal Berkeley than in Ed Coll's community college class. It's a little advanced, even for my fellow Speech Pathologists!<br /><br />Let me com college it down for you: when Nixon said: "I am not a crook!" he famously, and unintentionally, framed himself as a crook! If I were to say to you: "Don't think of Ed Coll as a Big Weenie!" where does the gentle reader's mind immediately go? When you deny something by using the cleverly chosen language of your accuser, you are doing 40% of their work for them!<br /><br />So, I say again, if you oppose (like me) the vile, supercilious, dishonest, "the end justifies the means," Northshore Cult of Fear's lynch mob and their campaign of propaganda, or if you are impartial, don't use their argument framing language!<br />Pete Antonson Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61011620953084389322014-10-23T20:01:00.277-10:002014-10-23T20:01:00.277-10:00Ed Coll- A rose is a rose.....
Most people do not...Ed Coll- A rose is a rose.....<br />Most people do not even want to discuss this Westside Ag/Chem Seed issue, for the reason you have so painfully exemplified. People get all bus' up for saying anything regarding Big Ag.<br />Sheesh, everyone knows what is meant, whether by euphemism or truism. <br />Fact is, Big Land is open for slaughter. Whatever they grow today or will grow tomorrow, Big Land will always be under attack. There is NO BIG Ag clean enough for the fistees.<br />BTW, Big Ag on this island isn't one of the cute l'il farms on the NS.<br />It costs a fortune just to keep the land fallow. Taxes, fencing, hana wai ditches, security etc. they all are expensive.<br />There were people against Sugar and if Sugar was here now, the same people would be complaining.<br />Sugar used over a hundred tons of dry fertilizer a week and hundreds of thousands of gallons of liquid fertilizer per week. The largest barge in the world (the Hawaii) was made specifically to transport the chemicals. In addition to the millions of tons of fertilizer per year, thousands of gallons of Paraquat and Roundup, Lorsban etc were used. <br />Big Ag must use plenny chemicals, that is how it's done. Even a million pounds of Chicken Shit don't smell no good. Let alone the flies li' dat.<br />The difference is the group of anti-anything-big has gotten larger. The island has had an influx of these antis. Many don't need no job, don't got no roots on the island and have inflamed the No Mo' GMO fad on Kauai. They all have the "I got here yesterday, so you can't come here tomorrow" elitism.<br />The anti-Ag group may well find themselves lubricating the door for Big Ag subdivisions, and these they will abhor.<br />The island needs good relationships with Big Land, they control purty much all beach access, water etc on the South and West sides. They may take umbrage at the hostile treatment they receive from you, Hooser, Bynum and the other flying fistess. <br />A good start to get back to reality and even keeled Conversation would be to get rid of da Hoos, Bynum and Chock.<br /><br />GF and G&R are not the evil. Vendettas always fail.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-31756362386043041332014-10-23T16:59:54.430-10:002014-10-23T16:59:54.430-10:001:27 PM
Antonson said - “Please understand that E...1:27 PM<br />Antonson said - “Please understand that Ed Coll and many others have adapted a mostly recent tactic of referring to Westside Biotech Agriculture as "The Chemical Companies." <br /><br />THE TRICK<br />Antonson’s trick is his false statement wrapped inside an association fallacy. <br /><br />THE FALLACY<br />Others (Antonson asserts) have referred to “Westside Biotech Agriculture as ‘The Chemical Companies’ “.<br />Ed Coll (Antonson asserts) has referred to “Westside Biotech Agriculture as ‘The Chemical Companies.’ “<br />Ed Coll is one of the “others” is the false conclusion.<br /><br />THE FALSEHOOD<br />In addition, the association fallacy is itself based on a falsehood. That makes it a toofer, a double fallacy because Ed Coll (this writer) never referred to “Westside biotech agriculture as ‘the chemical companies’ ” as Mr. Antonson asserts.<br /><br />WHO ARE YOU?<br />Antonson said - “This trick, if they get you to repeat it in your response, frames the argument in their favor. It is the duty of the opposition, or the impartial, not to be manipulated by this communication tactic!”<br /><br />Who are you Mr. Antonson, the “opposition”, the “impartial” or perhaps the “other”? Has your trickery manipulated me into referring to “Westside Biotech Agriculture as ‘The Chemical Companies’ ” 5 times in this comment alone, although I have never before referred to the “Westside Biotech Agriculture as ‘The Chemical Companies’ ”? WAIT! That makes 6 times! OMG it worked! <br /><br />Hmmmm….Are you Mr. Atonson the “other”? I ask because it appears you have manipulated me into multiple repetitions of your phrase to frame the argument in your favor, or should I say in favor of the “other”. One suggestion. The phrase doesn’t roll off the tongue nicely and is hard to remember. How about “Kaua`i Family Seed Farmers. Yes! That’s it! Easy to remember, rolls off the tongue and it sounds chock full of aloha to boot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-32064417993361347452014-10-23T16:36:06.604-10:002014-10-23T16:36:06.604-10:00Pete Antonson, The person you are responding to is...Pete Antonson, The person you are responding to is anonymous. Why do you call them "ignorant, unscientific, hypocritical"? What exactly did they say that is ignorant, unscientific and hypocritical. It is best to use facts instead of suppositions, don't you agree. Please show us the facts from their statement that supports what you say about that person. Mahalo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-84622309879313848912014-10-23T13:32:08.869-10:002014-10-23T13:32:08.869-10:00@7:26
I'm not telling YOU to stop using such w...@7:26<br />I'm not telling YOU to stop using such words for your ignorant, unscientific, hypocritical, little propaganda efforts, I'm appealing to the majority to not help you frame the argument by repeating those words in their replies!<br />Pete AntonsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-70757012742696969482014-10-23T10:13:07.678-10:002014-10-23T10:13:07.678-10:00i don't buy the "without ego" parts ...i don't buy the "without ego" parts that one commented on or we're all complicit for the sake of attributing why and what you speak about. levels of personal ethics and morals are deceptive when showcased to prove ones point(s), its grand standing. Good for you that you are so passionate and find the time to be the voice of a singular side of the intertwined flock. I do love reading your banters.I can't tag you a phony as its your right to chime away. <br />There is so much more that is known by so many others who circle around you. not about being complacent...tons of wrongs needing to be righted. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-68660983006255897612014-10-23T07:43:44.122-10:002014-10-23T07:43:44.122-10:00Joan, Could you please tell us the difference betw...Joan, Could you please tell us the difference between "attack" and "criticize". It appears that you often interpret criticism as attack. The word "attack" adds flames to the words- do we really need more flames in a world that is burning? And the words "redshirt" and "fistee"- cannot better words be found that do not stereotype everyone. Words are so important, especially how they are used. Do we wish to agitate, divide and inflame or to bring light to a topic through non-violent communication? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-33945485274613500582014-10-23T07:26:53.421-10:002014-10-23T07:26:53.421-10:00@1:27PM, Don't call the largest chemical compa...@1:27PM, Don't call the largest chemical companies in the world chemical companies? Why on earth not? Just to shift the focus to a more benign word like "seed". These companies make their money selling chemical poisons and that is the main issue right now- the poisoning of the land, water and air with chemicals. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-63144918891501657712014-10-23T06:29:04.445-10:002014-10-23T06:29:04.445-10:00Joan re: October 22, 2014 at 10:39 PM
No explanati...Joan re: October 22, 2014 at 10:39 PM<br />No explanations. Even in the spiritually free rainbow and unicorn land of of beeeutiful organics....there is a superstructure of ego and who did the most to further the cause. <br />Joan Conrow has done more to make awareness and change than any one, on Kauai for environmental issues.<br />SHe has done this by the power of KE, the politicos listen and the new found anti-joans know that she has the power....oh, how irritating is that? After the GMO thing is buried in the next election and Joan's new platform is exposed, then all the red shirts will be clamoring back to Joan's feet, thanking her for her new interest, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-14343297021516220522014-10-22T23:39:32.331-10:002014-10-22T23:39:32.331-10:0010:39:aka Jimmy Trujillo. I have been and am, thou...10:39:aka Jimmy Trujillo. I have been and am, though you wouldn't know anything about honesty yourself. Unless you meant I should've included how you repeatedly urged me to remain quiet about the red shirt BS I saw, since we were "all on the same side," set me up at the pollinator panel by bringing in a videographer after we'd agreed to no taping, which was my first experience with how the red shirts would stab even a friend in the back if it suits their objectives, and then repeatedly attacked and bullied me on FB when I started revealing the BS. Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-72201496126129147942014-10-22T22:39:33.336-10:002014-10-22T22:39:33.336-10:00joan, bee honest!joan, bee honest!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-13272107924127419562014-10-22T21:49:05.046-10:002014-10-22T21:49:05.046-10:00@2:32,
BADF, also known as the German company &quo...@2:32,<br />BADF, also known as the German company "Badische Anilin-und Soda-Fabrik" has absolutely nothing to do with Kauai's Westside Biotechnology Companies or the petty disrespect and cheap communication tactic of calling them something other than what they call themselves! It's just another example of the vile, supercilious, dishonesty of misdirection, and "the end justifies the means" attitude that Joan is writing about today!<br />Pete Antonson Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-8568713966999942014-10-22T21:05:23.559-10:002014-10-22T21:05:23.559-10:00there's a herd of elephants in the room: illeg...there's a herd of elephants in the room: illegal occupation and the displacement of Hawaiians, global warming, environmental degradation, income inequality and all that follows from the concentration of wealth in relatively few hands, religious extremism and its excessive influence on political decisions, etc.. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-85205095063574751042014-10-22T19:01:47.650-10:002014-10-22T19:01:47.650-10:00@ 10:42 am
With all due respect, your post makes ...@ 10:42 am<br /><br />With all due respect, your post makes you sound like a jealous individual. Mel's support is coming from the public, Which is a huge difference from being a self serving individual. <br /><br />Joan I have enjoyed your today's post and consider it one of your best. <br /><br />have a great dayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-35599798862599904632014-10-22T18:17:31.709-10:002014-10-22T18:17:31.709-10:00Joan
One morning not long ago, pre 2491, just...Joan<br /> <br />One morning not long ago, pre 2491, just when the the fire was getting started, I too approached Gary while sitting in the airport waiting for next flight. I was thinking about approaching this bill and getting the players all on the same page for the 2014 election, this way we would have a solid base and veto proof bill. <br /><br />Well I was shocked when Gary told me it didn't matter, it was about just passing the bill on the table. <br /><br />I have not looked at Gary the same way I used to too<br /><br />I have chosen to stay out of the limelight on this issue as my family is much more important to me than having the anti make life for them a living hell. <br /><br />Your not the only one who tried to calm the seas before the egos just exploded Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-19072657336515223502014-10-22T18:05:34.193-10:002014-10-22T18:05:34.193-10:00thanks 10:48, 3:03 and Pat!! And yes I did get you...thanks 10:48, 3:03 and Pat!! And yes I did get your email and will follow up. Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-67533730557728730902014-10-22T17:47:34.141-10:002014-10-22T17:47:34.141-10:00Your blog often makes me re-think my positions, be...Your blog often makes me re-think my positions, beliefs, and opinions - looking to see why I have those positions, beliefs, and opinions...so, you go girl! We can agree to disagree on some things, and we can celebrate differing opinions and being open to learning new things which frame our opinions! <br />For what it's worth, I, too, miss your lovely, lyrical picture-painting introductions!<br />Pat Hunter-Williams<br />P/S did you get my email about a possible story/investigation?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-57803627342987350082014-10-22T17:36:26.310-10:002014-10-22T17:36:26.310-10:00As my father often said..."the problem with p...As my father often said..."the problem with politics, is politicians".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com