tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post6036142138159177167..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: On BloggingJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-77075120466246426372008-07-17T07:28:00.000-10:002008-07-17T07:28:00.000-10:00My main problem with the disruption of comments-se...My main problem with the disruption of comments-sections is that "trolls" by defintion use personalized attacks instead of addressing ideas and opinions. The effect of this is that others, who are thoughtful and prone to engage in intelligent discussion and debate, get turned off because they don't care to be subjected to deragatory personal insults. Who can blame them?<BR/><BR/>The real shame is that these trolls are intentionally trying to inhibit productive discourse and expression.<BR/><BR/>Those of us who place a value on free expression refuse to censor them because it goes against our principles, yet they are intentionally discouraging the expression of those with whom they disagree.<BR/><BR/>What to do?Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-47718083982920332432008-07-17T05:04:00.000-10:002008-07-17T05:04:00.000-10:00And don't forget corporations and other interests ...And don't forget corporations and other interests have their own paid people who post comments and act like trolls and do various things to disrupt — and attempt to discredit — sites with which they don't agree.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-7803517048372747852008-07-16T22:06:00.000-10:002008-07-16T22:06:00.000-10:00I think Andrew Cooper above echoes my own response...I think Andrew Cooper above echoes my own response. There is no longer a monolithic medium called the press. There are many more nuances now, as seen by the difficulty in defining or pinning down exactly what it means to be a "real/traditional/professional journalist."<BR/><BR/>However the idea that governments will be bent on repressing blogs applies only in repressive regimes. As seen in this exact example, more savvy governments will jump in the act to sway public opinion. Corporations have already infiltrated the media with their own paid bloggers and reviewers (don't trust everything you see on those review sites). And even though there is a sort of self-policing whereby the shills are exposed, they are not entirely neutralized and in the meantime they pervert the public discourse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-51075163285806887152008-07-16T10:11:00.000-10:002008-07-16T10:11:00.000-10:00We can argue about the definition of journalism en...We can argue about the definition of journalism endlessly. The real issue is that blogs do serve a valid public service in this age where information is so critical. Maybe the question should be if blogs deserve a degree of public protection in the eyes of the legal system. I believe they do, certianly the laws and precedents used to attack them are those that apply to publishing, slander, libel, etc.<BR/><BR/>This is and increasingly will be part of the future social landscape. Blogs are used to disseminate information and to organize community activism. There will be powerful forces, corrupt government or corporations who will use the law to attempt to quash this information when it is their interest. <BR/><BR/>Why not define their legal status?Andrew Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404795276468632488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-14548418827297587722008-07-16T08:42:00.000-10:002008-07-16T08:42:00.000-10:00since it's not journalism, by your standard with w...since it's not journalism, by your standard with which I agree, it should not be offered the legal protection covering real/traditional/professional journalists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-80952513220215266012008-07-15T23:49:00.000-10:002008-07-15T23:49:00.000-10:00Two late observations:1) Money does change absolut...Two late observations:<BR/><BR/>1) Money does change absolutely everything. It means your opinions are no longer your own, even if they match your employer's. Blogs are for debate and people willing to be persuaded. Paid writers are by definition not willing to be persuaded by readers' comments. Plus what happens when your employer's opinions or your opinions change so that they no longer match? Money talks, everything else walks.<BR/><BR/>2) Joan is not clear which side of the fence she's playing. As a journalist herself, she seems to be ambiguous about which role she has on her blog. Does being a journalist make her blog journalism? I say no: a personal blog is always an opinion. Everyone has an opinion, thus the appeal of riting and reading blogs. So I don't hold Joan to journalistic standards in her blog, it's understood to be her opinion page.<BR/><BR/>As for bloggers "operating with a lot of the freedoms of a journalist, but none of the training or responsibility," I would add also none of the legitimacy unless built up by reputation, so no problem. As others have commented, blogging is a new media filling a void, not some perversion of old media.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-8284494624707716092008-07-15T18:58:00.000-10:002008-07-15T18:58:00.000-10:00Anonymous 5:16:It sounds like you've been reading ...Anonymous 5:16:<BR/>It sounds like you've been reading "The Secret."<BR/><BR/>I'm wondering what kind of negative vibes those little starving babies in Africa have been feeding into to create that reality and bring such suffering onto themselves - must be some VERY powerful thoughts!<BR/><BR/>I think that in the case of Joan's blog, it is very simple: she takes strong stands on important and controversial issues, and some people disagree with her. Some do it with wit, camaraderie and intelligence, and others do it with more passion than intelligence.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-28022376322627709732008-07-15T17:55:00.000-10:002008-07-15T17:55:00.000-10:00Still savoring the fact that you got Carlson's nam...Still savoring the fact that you got Carlson's name wrong in the same post where you were bragging about the special training, responsibility and ethics of professional journalists like yourself. Bask in the irony, people!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-38215478577589988922008-07-15T17:16:00.000-10:002008-07-15T17:16:00.000-10:00You misunderstood me. Joan asked why people respon...You misunderstood me. Joan asked why people respond to her the way they do. There is nothing wrong with angry complaining. There is lots in the world to be angry and complain about. But when you feed into that energy, that is the reality you create. It inevitably brings like comments. It is true. It is not meant as a bring down, Joan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-5734683235855317462008-07-15T12:34:00.000-10:002008-07-15T12:34:00.000-10:00Thanks, Andy and Anon 11:30 a.m. It's always nice ...Thanks, Andy and Anon 11:30 a.m. It's always nice to know that when somebody tries to slap me down, somebody else is there to pick me up. Is this that solidarity building Katy is always talking about?Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-43617192179287760312008-07-15T12:15:00.000-10:002008-07-15T12:15:00.000-10:00Joan negative? Here I try to offend everyone I can...Joan negative? Here I try to offend everyone I can and spout opinions Karl Marx would call too radical and you attack the only person I know who can describe genocide in the same column as a beautiful sunrise and project hope in doing so.<BR/><BR/>I gotta hand it to ya- that’s some impressive trolling... almost professional. Do you people have a school for this. And which bridge would that be under?Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-47225047009778462492008-07-15T11:03:00.000-10:002008-07-15T11:03:00.000-10:00> "...why it is that people respond the way they d...<I>> "...why it is that people respond the way they do...."<BR/><BR/>Probably because your writing is always so negative. Your blog emits a lot of negative energy. Lots of angry complaining. And that's okay, but it attracts those kinds of comments. < </I><BR/><BR/>I couldn't disagree more. To me the energy that empowers Joan's writing is positive and hopeful -- just not artificially sugar coated. It is clean and it is clear.<BR/><BR/>The readers' responses are typical of those posted to the readers' comments section of any community-interest blog or local newspaper's online edition -- a combination of intelligence, wit, snark and terminal dimbulbism. (Human nature and the lure of instant ego gratification being what they are, the snarky and the dim tend to dominate.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-78647221785889580842008-07-15T10:11:00.000-10:002008-07-15T10:11:00.000-10:00"what kind of message I want to be putting out, an..."what kind of message I want to be putting out, and why it is that people respond the way they do."<BR/><BR/>Probably because your writing is always so negative. Your blog emits a lot of negative energy. Lots of angry complaining. And that's okay, but it attracts those kinds of comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-62864010744518175562008-07-15T09:20:00.000-10:002008-07-15T09:20:00.000-10:00You really don’t get it Mr. Carlson.I could give a...You really don’t get it Mr. Carlson.<BR/><BR/>I could give a rip about Honolulu and rail. But I really hate corrupt practices, especially in government. And the very fact that you have been doing all this (I presume) unpaid work for all these years and putting up public-interest blogs (again presume unpaid) makes it worse. You are trading on journalistic integrity and using the “name” you attained for that work to do a paid PR job, “disclosed” or otherwise<BR/><BR/>You make a point of how you actually believe in what you’re getting paid to do- is this because usually you’ll sell anything? Boy that’s a real good way to promote your personal integrity. <BR/><BR/>Yes, money does change everything. This is not a side issue or distraction. I don’t like the anti-rail people’s silly personal attacks any more than I do yours. But please don’t try to BS me with this crap of you and your pro-rail crowd being “above the side show” when you’re just as bad in that department. As private individuals I really don’t care who the anti rail people “are”. <BR/><BR/>But the connections of government officials to extremely apparent corruption - the same officials who presumably are, along with the corrupt contractors, paying you - ARE the issue that puts THIS rail project in jeopardy and your ignoring that and getting everyone on the happy bandwagon and your not addressing it by calling it a sideshow is as corrupt as you can get.<BR/><BR/>There are lots of things that are “good” in concept. Rail-transit for Honolulu is probably one. But the devil is always in the details and the institution of this good idea has been fully corrupted and may be useless to anyone but developers and contractors. That is the central issue here.<BR/><BR/>And that BS about your “financial privacy” is even worse. No one is asking how much you are getting paid, only that you list those paying you.<BR/><BR/>I’m sure after all these years as a corporate shill you can’t see how money changes the equation and how you are giving public-interest journalism and news reporting a bad name. And that’s the problem. You can’t see it.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-86823720190668046072008-07-15T08:52:00.000-10:002008-07-15T08:52:00.000-10:00I love that quote, so true!I love that quote, so true!Andrew Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404795276468632488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-67212884752132297342008-07-15T00:34:00.000-10:002008-07-15T00:34:00.000-10:00go on a newsfast and check out on the nanopublishe...go on a newsfast and check out on the nanopublishers. you may discover good news within yourself.<BR/> <BR/>"There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community. By carefully chronicling the current events of contemporary life, it shows us of what very little importance such events really are. By invariably discussing the unnecessary, it makes us understand what things are requisite for culture, and what are not."<BR/>—Oscar Wilde, The Critic as ArtistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-77437775076007747422008-07-14T21:10:00.000-10:002008-07-14T21:10:00.000-10:00Since I'm the subject of much that's written in to...Since I'm the subject of much that's written in today's post and comments, let me weigh in.<BR/><BR/>Anyone who's paid close attention to the transit issue on Oahu since 1990 will know that I've been a consistent supporter of grade-separated transit... almost as visible as Cliff Slater in letters and commentaries, although nobody could be as prolific as Cliff. All of those pieces were written without compensation or connection with a client.<BR/><BR/>Now comes the Super Fight on Oahu, almost as big as the Superferry fight on Kauai, and I was asked to join the City's team of speakers to give the project's Power Point show to community groups around town. I'm paid a fee to do so, and I told every audience that fact. Nobody got up and left. And as the fight escalated, I was asked two weeks ago to step up my outreach; I decided to write a blog -- http://yes2rail.blogspot.com I have several others, including two on emergency communications; please read them:<BR/>http://tsunamilessons.blogspot.com<BR/>http://yourchore.blotspot.com<BR/><BR/>I disclosed my affiliation with the City in the very first Yes2Rail post on June 30 and the next day, too. When Larry Geller asked me about it last week and said he couldn't find my disclosure, I posted a FULL DISCLOSURE ALERT in the largest available type on my blog... in red, at that....and have continued to mention it.<BR/><BR/>Nothing I'm writing in my blog now is any different than what I wrote over 15+ years as I supported grade-separated transit. But because I'm being paid to give speeches and write about rail, critics conclude that what I'm writing now is tainted.<BR/><BR/>Sorry. Their logic falls apart. I didn't hide anything and in fact did just the opposite. And I didn't change my position in order to be paid. They're paying me because of my position -- which as an added bonus apparently upsets some people to the point of distraction. <BR/><BR/>I'm still waiting for the critics to answer this question: What alternative is there to sitting in traffic unless it's grade-separated transit? It's not buses; it's not Lexus Lanes; it's not car pools; it's not jitneys. Only grade-separated transit -- rail or otherwise -- delivers the commuter to his or her destination on time, every time. Nothing else can do that.<BR/><BR/>Rather than step up to this key issue, critics and the anti-rail crowd create smoke around the distractions, like my fee. I call it the Sideshow. <BR/><BR/>So be it. There's nothing hidden here, including my name, which is more than can be said for 99% of the posters of comments on the newspapers' sites. I will continue to argue in favor of transit as the logical and only option to avoid traffic. THAT is the Big Tent issue.Doug Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10191683240304122047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-28253851183270072172008-07-14T18:13:00.000-10:002008-07-14T18:13:00.000-10:00A common practice is for a profession to self poli...A common practice is for a profession to self police, to offer some sort of certification that a person practicing the profession is competent. This usually takes the form of a membership, possibly with some educational and testing requirements. Once admitted the member may then use that certification to advertise to potential customers as a form of reference. <BR/><BR/>This sort of scheme is the basis for the AMA, various state bar associations, and thousands of lesser known professional associations.<BR/><BR/>The potential downside is that once established these organizations often attempt to gain some sort of governmental recognition and an effective monopoly. Sometimes this is helpful, where a minimum of qualifications is a good idea, as in the practice of medicine. Many other times this state granted monopoly is used to stifle competition and dissent.<BR/><BR/>Even in cases where you would think the issue is clear there have been negative consequences. In the field of medicine state regulations have the effect of driving up medical costs and keeping some professionals, such as midwives, from practicing limited and useful roles in the industry. This is certainly true in the legal industry where lawyers have used their state monopoly to control the profession and costs to their benefit.<BR/><BR/>I can not see where any sort of regulation of journalists would be useful. Information is too important in our society to allow its dissemination to be regulated to a few, possibly biased or controlled outlets. Thus I fully agree with the poster above, in the "unchained expression of multiple voices in an anarchist smorgasbord of free speech".<BR/><BR/>In the same light some legal protection of these non-traditional outlets should also be considered. I support much of what is contained in the legislation. We need to encourage public participation, not regulate it.Andrew Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404795276468632488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-50578361081247313582008-07-14T18:01:00.000-10:002008-07-14T18:01:00.000-10:00"What's of value are eyeballs, which mean money fo..."What's of value are eyeballs, which mean money for the Advertiser and its parent company."<BR/><BR/>Yup, and I keep wondering what will happen when advertisers realize that more and more people are blocking popups and ads, as well as skipping commercials. It's not commonplace yet, but one can imagine the day when the eyeballs rebel. Then what? This will happen in the fullness of time.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06742098296808508617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-31329741461923002202008-07-14T16:50:00.000-10:002008-07-14T16:50:00.000-10:00It is very hard to think or speak without judgmen...It is very hard to think or speak without judgment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-5493776840864623912008-07-14T16:27:00.000-10:002008-07-14T16:27:00.000-10:00"I'm sixty, and leftish, and horrified."Old leftis..."I'm sixty, and leftish, and horrified."<BR/><BR/>Old leftists are so conservative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-33467533818505826732008-07-14T16:20:00.000-10:002008-07-14T16:20:00.000-10:00Definition of: citizen journalism News and comment...Definition of: citizen journalism <BR/><BR/>News and commentary from the public at large. Using wiki sites and blogs, anyone can contribute information about a current event. Also known as "collaborative citizen journalism" (CCJ), "grassroots media" and "personal publishing," the concept behind citizen journalism is that many volunteers help to ensure that the information is more accurate than when it is being reported from only one source. See wiki and blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-69415284210135110982008-07-14T16:03:00.000-10:002008-07-14T16:03:00.000-10:00Joan wrote:> Worse, newspapers such as the Adverti...Joan wrote:<BR/><I>> Worse, newspapers such as the Advertiser pander to this delusion with their “My Advertiser” section in which they encourage people to submit stories. Yet if you look at them, they’re generally press releases, often from marketing firms. What’s of value here? <</I><BR/><BR/>What's of value are eyeballs, which mean money for the Advertiser and its parent company. Traditional journalism is being gradually absorbed by infotainment conglomerates (conflations of content, culture and thought as well as business structure) that pander to their audience with the sole goal of making money. Cable news giants, local TV news departments, national journals and local newspapers all entice their customers' egos with the same instant-gratification techniques: tell us what you think! join our realtime blogs! talk to our on-air personalities online! send us your videos of news events! the most important thing to us is YOU! Time Magazine, in testament to its own selling out to the <I>Me Uber Alles</I> culture, put a mirror on its cover for "Man of the Year." <BR/><BR/>This era is seeing the rise of self aggrandizement, self entitlement and unbridled competition as valued aspects of American (and Western) culture, and the exploitation of those values by every media mogul to wants a buck, every politician who wants a vote, and every self-styled "citizen journalist" who wants his id in lights.<BR/><BR/>Me? I'm sixty, and leftish, and horrified.<BR/><BR/>:(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-53893482043730869902008-07-14T14:07:00.000-10:002008-07-14T14:07:00.000-10:00"Maybe it should be made a crime of some sort to r..."Maybe it should be made a crime of some sort to refer to yourself as a "journalist" without objective creditentials"<BR/><BR/>I'm pretty sure that <I>would</I> run afoul of the First Amendment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-73047333171746844012008-07-14T13:14:00.000-10:002008-07-14T13:14:00.000-10:00Hey it's not like journalism is rocket scienceHey it's not like journalism is rocket scienceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com