tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post724868782908330031..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Diffusing the EdginessJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-11648486981666271682008-06-12T09:10:00.000-10:002008-06-12T09:10:00.000-10:00The documentary is called "Good Neighbors" and pre...The documentary is called "Good Neighbors" and pre-dates youtube. It's probably still available through Kaua`i Worldwide Comminications in Puhi though Ed Coll.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-87503836271631769122008-06-12T08:04:00.000-10:002008-06-12T08:04:00.000-10:00John Doe said... "Mr/Ms Anonymous? I usually don't...John Doe said... "Mr/Ms Anonymous? I usually don't like to discuss anything with people who don't have the courage to identify themselves." <BR/><BR/>(This is too easy!) Ahhh...like "John Doe" is identifying yourself? lol (John's having a Homer Simpson moment!) Where's YOUR name boy?<BR/><BR/>John Dope further said, "Hold on to your sox Mr/Ms no-name, there is a big change coming that will shake you to your shallow core, or hopefully deeper."<BR/><BR/>Oh? My gosh...this is so scarey!! What's the big change Johnny boy? Please elaborate for us. BRING IT ON BABY!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30984648833633514872008-06-12T06:55:00.000-10:002008-06-12T06:55:00.000-10:00It seems to me that there is always a sector of th...It seems to me that there is always a sector of the public who refuses to believe that people can be treated unjustly by police.<BR/><BR/>In their minds, if someone is arrested, beaten and abused by police, that enough is proof that the person "deserved" it.<BR/><BR/>Supposedly, our criminal "justice" system doesn't work like that. Police are not supposed to have a free reign to abuse suspects. But the blood-thirsty cheering section egging them on helps to create a climate of acquiescence to police abuse.<BR/><BR/>When it comes to criminal justice in the US, or for that matter, here on Kaua'i, it's easy to point to individual examples of some suspect who was out of line and "had it coming." But with a problem this widespread, it's helpful to take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture. That's how we can examine the material results of institutional trends.<BR/><BR/>For example, we need to ask ourselves why it is that while whites use drugs at roughly the same rate as other racial groups, whites are arrested at such a disproportiately lower rate. This is just one example of the inequities imbedded in the system. We're all accountable here, and it doesn't work to pretend that the problem doesn't exist and that the police are just protecting us from "bad guys."Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-13529420994912616812008-06-12T00:17:00.000-10:002008-06-12T00:17:00.000-10:00Is it on You Tube?Is it on You Tube?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-6463647219621595562008-06-11T16:47:00.000-10:002008-06-11T16:47:00.000-10:00And there's a documentary showing everything Mr Do...And there's a documentary showing everything Mr Doe said about the event until the videographer was assaulted is true.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-86354927284844543212008-06-11T16:25:00.000-10:002008-06-11T16:25:00.000-10:00Mr/Ms Anonymous? I usually don't like to discuss a...Mr/Ms Anonymous? I usually don't like to discuss anything with people who don't have the courage to identify themselves. How dare you accuse me of provoking the cops. You don't know me, you weren't there. People who were there remember that none of us said anything to the overwhelming occupying force, we meditated and prayed on that vision the night before in our encampment. We were chanting Hawaiian Ku`e chants and remaining quiet and focused and within ourselves while the heavily armed enforcers of the burial desecration were dragging us off to the buses. Your lies are all you can say to defend what the 115 year occupation has done to the Hawaiian people, the Iraqi people, the American Indian people, and so many other millions of victims worldwide of the insatiable greed of empire and militarization and "manifest destiny". <BR/> Have you ever demonstrated or stood up for anything you really believed in yourself besides this genocidal government and your meal ticket job? <BR/> Hold on to your sox Mr/Ms no-name, there is a big change coming that will shake you to your shallow core, or hopefully deeper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-19176635917023057812008-06-11T09:24:00.000-10:002008-06-11T09:24:00.000-10:00Jon Doe - You've left out of your account your big...Jon Doe - You've left out of your account your big mouth and the insults that you delivered in an attempt to gode the police into taking some action that you could later site and distort into "police brutality". If you got hurt in the process of being arrested, for no good reason I'm sure, it's your own damn fault and you deserved it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-31663682081020877262008-06-10T08:39:00.000-10:002008-06-10T08:39:00.000-10:00Thank you for bringing that to our attention, John...Thank you for bringing that to our attention, John Doe. And you're right, there are always a few over the top cops on every force, and let's hope Perry can get rid of them before they have a chance to torture again.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-18346309885901179732008-06-10T00:29:00.000-10:002008-06-10T00:29:00.000-10:00"In all of the actions, people were arrested, but ..."In all of the actions, people were arrested, but no one was ever killed and the cops never got nuts."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Joan, I must tell you that some of the cops did go a little nuts on me and a Hawaiian Friend of mine when we were peacefully protesting the Stars Wars launches in the early 90's. A big part of our protest was that the launches were to take place on top of Hawaiian Burials at Nohili Dunes. Even though he is a gentle man, my Hawaiian Friend was singled out as the biggest, baddest looking Hawaiian, and he was verbally and physically roughed up before they took us all to the Waimea police station. On the way in the bus, a couple of local cops picked me out and proceeded to gleefully torture me by taking turns cranking on the plastic handcuffs behind my back, causing semi permanent nerve and muscle damage to both my wrists, hands and arms. As a carpenter, I couldn't work for 6 months after that. As a musician, I couldn't play music. One of the cops told me that he was going to get me alone later and beat the shit out of me because I was a haole long haired hippie communist out-of town agitator, and I didn't belong here. <BR/> At the time, it sure felt nuts to me...I couldn't sue the cops for brutality because we all decided to be anonymous for the action. My life experience has been that there is always a percentage of hard ass macho types on any police force. It all comes down from the top, hopefully Chief Perry is a decent man and he has the guts to get rid of the corrupt ones and the social misfits and edge dwellers on "the force". <BR/> Keep up the great work. You and the other bloggers are helping to change our world from the inside out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-37074023466132935702008-06-09T07:48:00.000-10:002008-06-09T07:48:00.000-10:00Post hoc ergo propter hocconfusing correlation wit...Post hoc ergo propter hoc<BR/><BR/>confusing correlation with causation <BR/><BR/>fallacy of the single cause<BR/><BR/>causal oversimplificationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-60796595587764328292008-06-09T07:21:00.000-10:002008-06-09T07:21:00.000-10:00You're right, we ought to go back to child labor, ...You're right, we ought to go back to child labor, unsafe workplaces, 80-hour work weeks, no benefits, no retirement, starvation wages, no vacations....oh wait, we ARE going back to that, ever since we started losing our unions.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and you guys are kidding about the Haymarket incident, right? Where did you get that simplistic reading on history? Your high school text book?Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-90096556115314536062008-06-09T07:18:00.000-10:002008-06-09T07:18:00.000-10:00For me, the most striking memory of the superferry...For me, the most striking memory of the superferry incident was the speed at which it first entered the harbor ( the first time). That is by far the fastest I have ever seen a big boat come in. If a small boat or a surfer had been in its path the first 200 yards, I am not sure it could have stopped, though I was very impressed with the speed at which it did stop when it finally had to. Interesting observation, lately the people that I have been talking with seem to be supportive of the superferry. It may be that the next direct action we see will be pro-superferry.<BR/><BR/>In terms of the KPD, I agree they still have a friendly face. Police everywhere have such a tough job, even on Kauai we have people that do not respect the rights of others and either rob them or stab them. We need police, but we need the police to maintain a careful balance, so far, I think KPD has done that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-65376762993908648532008-06-08T22:44:00.000-10:002008-06-08T22:44:00.000-10:00Awww...that was just "civil disobedience!"Awww...that was just "civil disobedience!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-15347551397054615882008-06-08T14:20:00.000-10:002008-06-08T14:20:00.000-10:00"You can thank the folks who came up with the word..."You can thank the folks who came up with the word "scab" for"...the Haymarket bombing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-63400545152691360452008-06-08T13:27:00.000-10:002008-06-08T13:27:00.000-10:00Katy said, "You can thank the folks who came up wi...Katy said, "You can thank the folks who came up with the word "scab" for your weekends, your health benefits...."<BR/><BR/>Add to that for starters the highest workers' compensation premiums in the nation, the lack of affordable manufactured homes, some of highest taxes in the nation, a labor government that hasn't a clue when it comes to improving and diversifying the local economy, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45859386464655145852008-06-08T13:26:00.000-10:002008-06-08T13:26:00.000-10:00"your subject at hand Joan (not the one the anonym..."your subject at hand Joan (not the one the anonymous witnesses and assorted trolls would like to use to tangential-ize it)" APX<BR/><BR/>Yeah, Juan. Quit tangential-izing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-40923374089790658132008-06-08T12:52:00.000-10:002008-06-08T12:52:00.000-10:00Filthy scabs. Horrible people. And their hungry ch...Filthy scabs. Horrible people. And their hungry children too!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-6431094952576175082008-06-08T11:38:00.000-10:002008-06-08T11:38:00.000-10:00Back to your subject at hand Joan (not the one the...Back to your subject at hand Joan (not the one the anonymous witnesses and assorted trolls would like to use to tangential-ize it) that’s exactly what those of us who are upset about the “tough talk” and purchase of riot gear and tasers have been saying- our cops here have always been our friends and neighbors and have usually acted with great restraint and respect, a few published incident notwithstanding. <BR/><BR/>And we’d like to keep it that way. And we’re not so sure the current KPD administration agrees with this and as a matter of fact many have interpreted their recent public missives to indicate quite the opposite.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-42044165241438045922008-06-08T11:08:00.000-10:002008-06-08T11:08:00.000-10:00Yeah. That's why we call them scabs. Funny how t...Yeah. That's why we call them scabs. Funny how the right suddenly finds so much love for the working class in these situations.<BR/><BR/>In labor's long history it has been crucial to great gains for workers' rights when working people have held eachother accountable for upholding solidarity.<BR/><BR/>Sure it runs counter to the "every man for himself" philosophy, but there you have it. <BR/><BR/>You can thank the folks who came up with the word "scab" for your weekends, your health benefits, your fair workplace laws, your health and safety standards on the job, and all those other little things the scabs were willing to give away.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-37559561524936315632008-06-08T10:12:00.000-10:002008-06-08T10:12:00.000-10:00It's true. Strikebreakers, or "scabs," as labor ca...It's true. Strikebreakers, or "scabs," as labor calls them, are people who work despite a strike. The name "strikebreaker" might evoke images of goons hired to break up a picket or something along those lines, but that's not the case. They are workers who are willing to work for the wages and under the conditions that striking workers are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-78936931732559876472008-06-08T09:58:00.000-10:002008-06-08T09:58:00.000-10:00Joan - I believe I said that the two kidnap victim...Joan - I believe I said that the two kidnap victims were not involved in the strike and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were trying to go to work. You can call them strike breakers from your labor-leaning point of view, but they were two guys just trying to earn a living. Was it not their right to go to work just as it was the strikers right to break their unfair employment contracts? A civil vs. criminal matter. Unfortunately, the strikers turned it from civil to criminal and the rest is history.<BR/><BR/>Emme Tomimbang appears to give a balanced account of the event in her documentary as covered by Lester Chang in the Garden Island on May 25, 2006. <BR/><BR/>Here are excerpts:<BR/><BR/>“As the story goes, strikers held two strike-breakers against their will in Hanapepe, thus triggering the Hanapepe Massacre.“<BR/><BR/>“According to documents, Crowell reportedly produced papers to show the men being held against their will by the strikers were wanted and Crowell was going to take them into custody.<BR/><BR/>The two men were eventually turned over to Crowell, and as he and others prepared to leave in cars, they found themselves confronted by an angry crowd.<BR/><BR/>Crowell cautioned his men not to shoot unless he gave orders to do so. But a shot rang out from the crowd, triggering a melee that led to hand-fighting and stabbings, and the fatalities, the historical account states.”<BR/><BR/>“Historical documents also showed that 101 Filipinos were arrested, 76 were brought to trial, and 60 were given four-year sentences.<BR/><BR/>Manlapit, although he was not on the island when the assault occurred, was charged with encouraging others to commit perjury during the trial, and was sentenced to two to 10 years in prison.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-14907507197157884582008-06-08T08:23:00.000-10:002008-06-08T08:23:00.000-10:00Anonymous 9:31 appears to be correct. The video is...Anonymous 9:31 appears to be correct. The video is available on You Tube and in it the guy pounding the hood of the car is seen laughing and yelling, "Ow! My foot!" He then immediately wheels around and walks away laughing while others standing near him at the hood of the car are laughing as well. <BR/><BR/>Anonymous is also correct that others have made similar cynical attempts to rationalize and rehabilitate some of the documented bad behavior of demonstrators. A recent letter to the editor absurdly claimed that the two guys letting the air out of the tires were trying to stop the truck as well which, it was falsely claimed, was trying to run over a group of protesters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-87070987428325267642008-06-08T06:17:00.000-10:002008-06-08T06:17:00.000-10:00Anonymous wrote:"You left out that in that particu...Anonymous wrote:<BR/>"You left out that in that particular event the Filipino strikers had kidnapped two laborers from Makaweli who had no interest in joining their group and were merely in the wrong place at the wrong time. The rest of the story is that the police went in to free the two hostages and were met with a violent situation."<BR/><BR/>First, this was not intended as a definitive report on the event, but an example of how people have been killed on Kauai in altercations with police as a result of direct political actions.<BR/><BR/>Second, further quick research on my part indicates the two men from Makaweli were strikebreakers, not merely "in the wrong place at the wrong time." <BR/><BR/>As for the "freeing the hostages" bit, I will have to wait and check with my definitive source on this subject, my neighbor Andy Bushnell.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-65362560947687580222008-06-08T02:42:00.000-10:002008-06-08T02:42:00.000-10:00Good grief Juan. At least accept the reality of t...Good grief Juan. At least accept the reality of the iffy if not bad actions of some of those caught up in the excitement.<BR/><BR/>Was the guy letting air out of tires doing that for safety as well? Was the shouting and anger in the voices only over safety? What a joke you are becoming.<BR/><BR/>Civil disobedience is unlawful on its face. You can't pretend otherwise though I'm not saying it isn't appropriate at times. That scares some people. Especially those that imagine how they'd feel if they and their kids were the ones in the middle of the dispute.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-87502003354550721152008-06-08T00:32:00.000-10:002008-06-08T00:32:00.000-10:00Joan - You related part of the account of the "Han...Joan - You related part of the account of the "Hanapepe Massacre" as an example of police being used to quell labor unrest. You left out that in that particular event the Filipino strikers had kidnapped two laborers from Makaweli who had no interest in joining their group and were merely in the wrong place at the wrong time. The rest of the story is that the police went in to free the two hostages and were met with a violent situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com