tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post7718451003407088265..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Talking StoryJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-46272723894114504402008-06-16T10:06:00.000-10:002008-06-16T10:06:00.000-10:00Brescia submitted a mitigation plan that would hav...Brescia submitted a mitigation plan that would have involved moving the 6 or 7 of the remains that will be under the house, but the burial council said no.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-80344196754673113972008-06-16T08:39:00.000-10:002008-06-16T08:39:00.000-10:00If it's such a big deal to Ka'iulani and her buddi...If it's such a big deal to Ka'iulani and her buddies, they should petition the Burial Council made up of her fellow kanaka maoli brethren to have them moved and reinterred someplace where they can feel they're being properly care for. Sorry, but that’s the law, that’s what’s fair to all involved. The big hoopla is all because of who Brescia is and the perceived wrongs you, Joan and your ilk, think he’s committed by building homes and renting them to tourists. If it were a kanaka who was building there, you wouldn’t be making this stink. Obviously, you’re using the kanaka maoli for your own anti-development purposes. But that’s OK, they’ve been used lots before by better than you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-26222462749717358512008-06-16T07:08:00.000-10:002008-06-16T07:08:00.000-10:00800 year old bones that no living person can possi...800 year old bones that no living person can possibly claim anscestry with and were long forgotten until construction found them? Be my guest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-80257361005018450032008-06-16T06:54:00.000-10:002008-06-16T06:54:00.000-10:00"Building over the bones and respecting the bones ..."Building over the bones and respecting the bones are not mutually exclusive."<BR/><BR/>Where are your ancestors buried and when can we begin building on their graves?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-90103767573759012762008-06-15T08:52:00.000-10:002008-06-15T08:52:00.000-10:00Again, nobody "relishes" building over bones. It's...Again, nobody "relishes" building over bones. It's more expensive to deal with them in the respectful manner dictated by state law and experts who are on site directing the work around the bones. The idea that someone cares more about making money than the concerns of some people is just self serving spin. Building over the bones and respecting the bones are not mutually exclusive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-51444907652547256042008-06-15T05:59:00.000-10:002008-06-15T05:59:00.000-10:00Joe Brescia apparently cares more about profit tha...Joe Brescia apparently cares more about profit than he does about the legitimate concerns of people who have a cultural and geneological tie to the burial site.<BR/><BR/>He seems to "relish" the money he makes by building houses in Haena and selling or renting them out as vacation rentals.<BR/><BR/>That's one person.<BR/><BR/>On Oahu, WalMart, not a person but a corporation, is doing the same thing. So has the US Military.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps it's more accurate to say that people, or corporations and institutions, who put profit before people don't care about, rather than relish, building on sacred sites.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if there's much difference in the net effect.<BR/><BR/>Either way, the actions flow from assumptions about the value and importance of people, in this case Kanaka Maoli, compared to their own interests.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-57603690274249332262008-06-14T22:10:00.000-10:002008-06-14T22:10:00.000-10:00Nobody "relishes" building over iwi. That doesn't ...Nobody "relishes" building over iwi. That doesn't even enter into it. But certain activists do try to turn it to political advantage. Which are the opportunists? The activists who callously press the iwi into the service of their politics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-5295192718115619732008-06-14T21:11:00.000-10:002008-06-14T21:11:00.000-10:00Katy said, "...there are also many people who seem...Katy said, "...there are also many people who seem to relish the idea of building over bones...."<BR/><BR/>There you go again, Katy! Please name one person who seems to relish the idea. Just ONE please. <BR/><BR/>Katy - Twisting your opponent's words into a meaning that was never stated is a disingenuous form of debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-13468309569847597712008-06-14T20:35:00.000-10:002008-06-14T20:35:00.000-10:00seriously, does anyone actually think it's such a ...seriously, does anyone actually think it's such a horrible thing to have a house built on iwi? Only people with a grudge against building houses do. The rest of us who recognize that houses have to be built, and the iwi themselves, are much more understanding. The iwi don't share the politics of the left. They don't give a shit about the left's or anyone else's politics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-44649080392614780252008-06-14T13:30:00.000-10:002008-06-14T13:30:00.000-10:00Parx should post anonymously. His postings might ...Parx should post anonymously. His postings might then have a bit more credibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-57920002767436702432008-06-14T10:04:00.001-10:002008-06-14T10:04:00.001-10:00Ka'iulani should't count her chickens just yet.......Ka'iulani should't count her chickens just yet.....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06046926239803879487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58281326833202925472008-06-14T10:04:00.000-10:002008-06-14T10:04:00.000-10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06046926239803879487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-59307253195933621052008-06-14T09:30:00.000-10:002008-06-14T09:30:00.000-10:00You shouldn't because you obviously make it up as ...You shouldn't because you obviously make it up as you go and all you do is call people names and make up falsehoods that serve your agenda. And then when you get called out you call people names and make up falsehoods again. One trick doggy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-86496193120666498542008-06-14T09:20:00.000-10:002008-06-14T09:20:00.000-10:00You people are hilarious- the first response is 5t...You people are hilarious- the first response is 5th grade I’m rubber and you’re glue and the next tried to sound like you’re Hawaiian and write about your “kapuna”... you crack me up... why should I botherAndy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-33640172314773620662008-06-13T19:15:00.000-10:002008-06-13T19:15:00.000-10:00Right then. So, as I was saying, it's not disrespe...Right then. So, as I was saying, it's not disrespectful to build and live over our kapuna. It is a blessing to live over them. Only the shallow and the self obsessed try to draw our kapuna into these political disputes over land.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-47456467868076301892008-06-13T10:44:00.000-10:002008-06-13T10:44:00.000-10:00You are the one who is misinformed - or who is try...You are the one who is misinformed - or who is trying to misinform us. We are too familiar with you. We know you say whatever you please to be right. We don't believe you. Prove what you say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-68796204613664191172008-06-13T10:32:00.000-10:002008-06-13T10:32:00.000-10:00Where do malahini get their misinformation? And mo...Where do malahini get their misinformation? And more importantly why do they cling to these stupid notion they had when they came here instead of learning the stuff that people here learned growing up in school. <BR/><BR/>There are not “bones everywhere”. Pre-contact burials were in certain proscribed areas, usually makai- either kahakai (beach) or very close. The sites are pretty well known if you ask kama`aina- or consult a Hawaiian History, Hawaiiana and local archeology texts.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-59450042544100135002008-06-13T09:28:00.000-10:002008-06-13T09:28:00.000-10:00I think what the anonymous commenter is trying to ...I think what the anonymous commenter is trying to point out is the absurdity of insisting that it's disrespectfull to build over bones, on an island strewn with bones from one end to the other. The only reason we even discover we're building over iwi nowadays is because we dig into the ground for utilities and footings. There's nothing inherently disrespectful about living over the bones. We leave them where they rest, treat them with respect when we encounter them. Living above them is a blessing to us, not a curse to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-85022688872779939912008-06-13T08:55:00.000-10:002008-06-13T08:55:00.000-10:00Anonymous 7:59:What is your point? You may very w...Anonymous 7:59:<BR/><BR/>What is your point? You may very well be trying to raise a legitimate point of debate about these larger questions, but it's lost in the language of elementary-school taunting.<BR/><BR/>Are you asking a larger question about the way each of us relates to a bigger struggle through our own individual ethical choices? Are you implying that anyone who can be shown to live with some level of contradiction in their lives (in other words, everyone) is summarily disqualified from engaging in the search for greater social justice? Help us help you, friend!<BR/><BR/>Argue the points, not the person. None of this hurts my feelings, it just disappoints me to see that people arguing a different point of view allow themselves to be such flabby opponents.<BR/><BR/>Critical dialogue and debate can help us all find solutions to significant social problems....so I'm all for it.<BR/><BR/>And I think once you give it a shot, you might find you don't need to post anonymously anymore because you will grow into having the courage of your convictions.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61011646532442375412008-06-13T07:59:00.000-10:002008-06-13T07:59:00.000-10:00Geeezzz, Katy! Don't you think it is your obligat...Geeezzz, Katy! Don't you think it is your obligation to make sure that your house isn't built on Kanaka Maoli bones? I think that's the only right thing to do if you don't know for sure. Look at the disrespect and sacrilege you may be perpetrating every day scraping your feet on the graves of the deceased.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-81273256928607565532008-06-13T07:41:00.000-10:002008-06-13T07:41:00.000-10:00Just to clarify, Ted Burkhardt did tell me when I ...Just to clarify, Ted Burkhardt did tell me when I interviewed him at the Naue site on June 3 that he did not know there were any burials on the land when he bid on the job.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-29258127309928620602008-06-12T22:54:00.000-10:002008-06-12T22:54:00.000-10:00Yeah, my comment sounded really stupid and self-se...Yeah, my comment sounded really stupid and self-serving, but that's not how I meant it. I'm pointing out that you are jumping to conclusions and that in this case, I really believe you're wrong. I think it's kind of pointless to try to find these little "gotcha" moments - a la Bill O'Reilly - instead of sticking to the principles being discussed. In this case, it's a question of how to respect a tradition of respect for iwi kupuna. <BR/><BR/>However, I led myself right into it, and I should have known better!<BR/><BR/>I regret having brought into this conversation outside people - my husband, my landlords- to make a point, and I hope we can return this dialogue to a higher level.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-7179099736114254882008-06-12T22:00:00.000-10:002008-06-12T22:00:00.000-10:00Anonymous 9:27 -> Red cardAnonymous 9:27 -> Red cardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45739547690078765232008-06-12T21:27:00.000-10:002008-06-12T21:27:00.000-10:00oooohhhhh...Kanaka Maoli...oooohhhhmay I touch the...oooohhhhh...Kanaka Maoli...oooohhhh<BR/>may I touch the hem of your garment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45196076675407130332008-06-12T21:12:00.000-10:002008-06-12T21:12:00.000-10:00That's a good question - I wish I knew. And to an...That's a good question - I wish I knew. <BR/><BR/>And to anonymous 5:28, I live in a house owned and built by Kanaka Maoli who have had this place in their family for a very very long time - I believe that they knew what they were doing, and that they did it with respect.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.com