tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post1393492342986194562..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Take, Take, TakeJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-224162031053152152008-05-17T07:14:00.000-10:002008-05-17T07:14:00.000-10:00No, it's not different because it wasn't us; it wa...No, it's not different because it wasn't us; it was people who are dead now. You can't punish the dead. I guess you can disturb them; but, thats something else you're against. As for the living, you can give them the opportunity to be educated and better their circumstances. However, you can't make them take that opportunity.Pete Antonsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339804837536096646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-29055159122934829082008-05-16T19:23:00.000-10:002008-05-16T19:23:00.000-10:00Thanks! I was starting to feel a little bit weird...Thanks! I was starting to feel a little bit weird about the way the land was stolen and how Hawaiians are now at the very bottom of socio-economic heap here,homeless, making up 70% of the children in foster care, etc., but now that you mention how messed up they were back in the day, I can see how they kinda had it coming anyway.<BR/><BR/>Except there's one thing that still bothers me: weren't white people doing some - well - slightly weird things back then, too? Slavery comes to mind, as does the genocide of the First nations people...but I guess that's different because they were white.<BR/><BR/>-KatyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58251435293781701452008-05-16T08:27:00.000-10:002008-05-16T08:27:00.000-10:00It's about private property stupid!You all castiga...It's about private property stupid!<BR/>You all castigate the Robinsons for their rules...but its is their property after all.<BR/><BR/>Would you not impose certain rules if someone was living in your home or on your property? For instance, if you are a non-smoker would you allow smoking house guests to light-up?<BR/><BR/>Let's say you have a renter on your property who continually bad-mouths you and your family for whatever reason, how long would you tolerate that?<BR/><BR/>Andy's "huge cut" comment is pure fiction, an unsubstantiated lie in fact. Bruce and Keith Robinson are simply not wired that way. Anyone who knows them would understand that. Seems Marge gave you the wrong "scoop" there, Andy.<BR/><BR/>You all also seem to have some misguided notions about a pre-European Hawaiian utopia. What existed was a severe feudal caste system with rules that make the Robinsons look like latter day liberals. <BR/><BR/>Cast your shadow on an Alii's house or person and you are put to death; pick fruit or catch fish in the "wrong" area and once again you are put to death. Get some historical perspective.....<BR/><BR/>HookanoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-56686582135224924832008-05-15T10:10:00.000-10:002008-05-15T10:10:00.000-10:00Andy,Juan Wilson disagrees with you. "The Robinson...Andy,<BR/><BR/>Juan Wilson disagrees with you. <BR/><BR/>"The Robinson family.<BR/><BR/>Why? Because, even with their eccentricities and tribulations they have demonstrated a long term commitment to Kauai, Niihau and the Hawaiian people of those islands. Also, they are a private family business that can do whatever they like. If they decide to follow an enlightened path, they can... without the kinds of bureaucratic red tape and bickering of the public sector or the dog-eat-dog, bottom-line, interest-of-the-shareholders corporate crapola."<BR/><BR/>http://homepage.mac.com/juanwilson/islandbreath/%20Year%202005/a05-19-farming/0519-03robinsonlegacy.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-34661081663990860252008-05-15T09:48:00.000-10:002008-05-15T09:48:00.000-10:00Now wait just a minute here. The Robinsons are wha...Now wait just a minute here. The Robinsons are what has “destroyed” Ni`ihau life and culture, chasing away everyone with a brain or a soul. In order to live on Ni`ihau or even visit your family there you must:<BR/>1) Be 200% Christian<BR/>2) Kow-tow to the Robinsons and not only not say anything bad about them but promote them as wonderful caretakers and all the people could ask for. <BR/>3) Many of the best and brightest are either banned from coming home or have to shut up about an imposed system that exploits them and gives them little if anything. <BR/>4) You are not allowed to start any kind of business or trade that deals with the outside world that is not “approved” by Keith/Bruce- and few are, especially if they don’t get a huge cut. That’s why people are reduced to only making Ni`ihau leis- for years people had to smuggle them out and secretly sell them. Only the Robinsons can run businesses or profit in any way from anything off-island and if you want to come back or not have your family thrown out you’d better do it.<BR/>5) The Ni`ihauans would be just fine if it were really their island. But the Robinsons have destroyed almost all elements of the culture.<BR/><BR/>This is not said in a vacuum- I’ve spoken to many who were banned and many who continue to shut up about the Robninson’s Kiplingesque attitudes and actions. I happened to be friends with Marge Robinson when she was here too and so got the real scoop.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45740624358458761822008-05-15T09:46:00.000-10:002008-05-15T09:46:00.000-10:00Anonymous,What makes you think Niihau was ever int...Anonymous,<BR/>What makes you think Niihau was ever intended to be a Utopian society? A private colony of the Robinsons would be a more apt description -- with all the inherent problems that colonialism brings.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-34245646400405548012008-05-15T09:23:00.000-10:002008-05-15T09:23:00.000-10:00Larry,There is no racist intent about my previous ...Larry,<BR/><BR/>There is no racist intent about my previous statement. I propose that if you put ANY "race" (caucasian, black, asian, etc) under similar circumstances on Niihau the result would be what you're currently seeing; a society that is slowly failing. I call your au contraire and raise you a schadenfruede. I take absolutely no schadenfruede on the plight of the good people of Niihau, or the works of the Robinson family to preserve their culture. Personally, I'd like to see them thrive, but under the circumstances it seems unlikely: my point is that the result isn't unexpected, and due more to the inherent complications and difficulties that Utopian type societies have faced over the years than due to the actions of those on neighbor islands stealing opihi or poaching their livestock. Isolationism doesn't have a very successful record in human history. I see it as an unfortunate experiment b/c what is to happen when Keith/Bruce can no longer afford to subsidize the population there?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-77274551728550647542008-05-14T21:27:00.000-10:002008-05-14T21:27:00.000-10:00I have been to Niihau and it's not primitive, just...I have been to Niihau and it's not primitive, just extremely rural. The people live in regular houses, they've got generators, solar panels on the school roof to power computers for the kids, and trucks that transport stuff and people from the barge and helicopter pad to the village. It even has an unmanned (save for surveillance cameras) Navy installation. But no paved roads or electric lines.<BR/><BR/>Ironically, Niihau residents did adapt to the conditions they were confronted with when their island was sold to non-Hawaiians. They became strict Christians, they voted, they worked in various Robinson enterprises so they could buy stuff. They've been good Americans. And where has it gotten them? <BR/><BR/>The same place as so many other Hawaiians, who have had to leave their home to survive and thrive.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-68752347543188519932008-05-14T20:36:00.000-10:002008-05-14T20:36:00.000-10:00The culture survived nicely for ages and ages. Iso...The culture survived nicely for ages and ages. Isolation alone doesn't mean extinction at all. I call your nobles oblige and raise you an au contraire. It was contact with European civilization that nearly brought about extinction.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me to be a racist assumption that a predominantly Hawaiian society cannot either adapt or survive, or that it has to be primitive. I've never been to Niihau, but my understanding is that being primitive is not what it's about.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06742098296808508617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-57405202462882701862008-05-14T19:34:00.000-10:002008-05-14T19:34:00.000-10:00Throughout human -and natural - history one of the...Throughout human -and natural - history one of the constants has been to adapt, improvise, change....or find extinction within a few generations. Forgetting for a moment the merits of a isolated Niihau (if any), is it really all that surprising that that experimentally primitive culture is dying out? There's always been something creepy and ironic to me about this "fiercely independent Hawaiian culture" that (barely) survives only because of the nobles oblige and welfare of the Robinson family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30694805975679838732008-05-14T17:41:00.000-10:002008-05-14T17:41:00.000-10:00So true about Niihau. I've heard the same stories....So true about Niihau. I've heard the same stories. A friend visited the school and said all they had for the lunch progam for the kids was canned food. At least the Hawaiian language lives on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-5371409908420419592008-05-14T13:49:00.000-10:002008-05-14T13:49:00.000-10:00Joan, on a seperate note, I noticed they took the ...Joan, on a seperate note, I noticed they took the poll down from Garden Island News without reporting the final results. As of yesterday the 'No's' were ahead almost 60% to 40%. The total votes were up to almost 3000 total which is more than enough for a sample, albeit the sampling technique was not scientific. Wonder why they took it down without providing a final summary report? BradMauibradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16759237357642699345noreply@blogger.com