tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post2564525072856307288..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Obstacles to Sustainable AgJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-91650673646259711232014-11-15T13:03:31.058-10:002014-11-15T13:03:31.058-10:00All the backwards looking folk need to get a grip....All the backwards looking folk need to get a grip. Ain't no turning back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-32280526183337595752014-11-12T15:56:23.874-10:002014-11-12T15:56:23.874-10:004:21 AM said:
The people that live on Kauai are r...4:21 AM said: <br /><i>The people that live on Kauai are responsible for what has happened in the past as well as what is happening today and will continue to happen.</i><br /><br />Your abysmal ignorance of the history of Hawaii, the consequences of colonialism and the effects of racism is no excuse for continuing the stupidity of the past.Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-23680405259488293862014-11-12T10:05:05.914-10:002014-11-12T10:05:05.914-10:00http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.AGR.TOTL.ZS...http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.AGR.TOTL.ZS<br /><br />The above table is for the percentage of Ag to GDP. The higher the percentage the poorer or more developing the country. USA 1% developing Vietnam 20% war recovery Burundi 41%.<br /><br />Kauai in the 70's Ag a major portion of our economy. Kauai in 2014 not so much. Go back. Not possible.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-37129050024865567742014-11-12T08:23:00.706-10:002014-11-12T08:23:00.706-10:00Mr. Dent seems bitter. I don't live or farm on...Mr. Dent seems bitter. I don't live or farm on Kauai - Big Island.<br /><br /> There are successful farmers in Hawaii. This is undeniable. I would caution readers that his cynicism should not be projected throughout the state. Kauai has it's own scene.<br /><br /> The crops he chooses, his production, processing and marketing savvy all play a role- and I'll cede that he is doing all well-but I don't know.<br /><br />Perhaps his organic production methods are driving his costs up and yields down, leading to thinner margins? What is his definition of "sustainability"? At one point he claims he does "more than required". That would presumably include a higher cost. Why? Does producing coffee in the shadow of a giant impact his margin?<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I respect him and what he does. But if we followed his advice we'd import everything. Hardly "sustainable".<br /><br />The cost of permitting processes and conditions imposed by counties to develop land are wildly expensive. Cost of labor, compliance with regulations, building materials, taxes, fuel and digging in solid rock all contribute to high development costs, to the point where ag can be more profitable than development. I've got the numbers to prove it.<br /><br /> But if there are people willing to pay, who likely made their money elsewhere, developers will fill that need. That's what you got.<br /><br />Speculators speculate. Legislators legislate. If you try to shut developers down, you only drive the costs up and attract a demographic that can afford it. <br /><br /> We all pay the price. <br /><br />Ag in hawaii is a vexing problem. If it were simple we'd have solved it already. Add to the mix a bunch of non-farmers banning farming practices, making wild, unfounded claims and lawmakers lapping it up. Who in ther right mind would go into farming under these conditions? <br /><br />The same folks who whine about "sustainability" focus on environmental concerns, and toss out the economic and social impacts of their protests. <br /><br />When they drive farming essentially out of Hawaii, what will be the next crisis in search of their Utopian dreams? We are allowing minds of questionable logic, reason and integrity influence policy. The result of this societal illness is yet to be fully known. I do know it's the wrong direction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-32789136415274085932014-11-12T04:21:33.157-10:002014-11-12T04:21:33.157-10:00Dawson & 7:37. Why do you blame others for ...Dawson & 7:37. Why do you blame others for your own mistakes ? The people that live on Kauai are responsible for what has happened in the past as well as what is happening today and will continue to happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-16158974923346705102014-11-11T21:37:13.958-10:002014-11-11T21:37:13.958-10:00The middle income housing is not being built in Ku...The middle income housing is not being built in Kukuiula. Just like Princeville's affordable housing was built in Kilauea. Hard to market an upscale project as exclusive if you've got the riff raff living amongst the you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-39714693225088606462014-11-11T20:45:46.243-10:002014-11-11T20:45:46.243-10:00Smart and talented? Why thank you Anonymous 5:16, ...Smart and talented? Why thank you Anonymous 5:16, I’m humbled by your praise. But I’m puzzled by your reference to my “many sweetheart construction deals” on Kauai. Most of my career in construction was with Trenchless Engineering Corporation—a high tech no-dig underground utility technology that has its greatest demand in dense urban corridors. While we did some work on Kauai, the majority of our contracts were in Honolulu, Hilo and Kona; and our main office and base yard was in town just off Nimitz across from Young Brothers. Can you name some of these Kauai “sweetheart deals” Anonymous 5:16? John Wehrheimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-51951850559012307252014-11-11T20:44:36.701-10:002014-11-11T20:44:36.701-10:008:17. They also have to build middle income housin...8:17. They also have to build middle income housing, with the market housing subsidizing its cost. Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-10492752053562619982014-11-11T20:17:43.993-10:002014-11-11T20:17:43.993-10:00"A&B is required to build housing for all..."A&B is required to build housing for all income levels at Kukuiula."<br /><br />They have to build affordable housing units, but the bulk of the project is market housing (meaning million dollar lots and architecturally designed cottages) that won't be sold to local buyers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30824790212657110212014-11-11T20:08:03.777-10:002014-11-11T20:08:03.777-10:00"She extorts huge dollars from any developer ..."She extorts huge dollars from any developer for her fantasies, loves to add sidewalks, waliking street dreams and other cost items and now she has her wish.....no development, no houses for the locals and only the wealthy can come and buy."<br /><br />Princeville, Kukuiula and these other "resort" developments are designed for and marketed to rich second home - retiree buyers. You think the developer's choice was this or nothing? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30488172190909078222014-11-11T20:02:32.440-10:002014-11-11T20:02:32.440-10:00Anonymous 6:06 PM said:
When will you "locals...Anonymous 6:06 PM said:<br /><i>When will you "locals" stop biching about what is happening on Kauai ? You blame anyone and everyone about everything You were here first.... You should blame your Mothers and Fathers if you do not like the changes. Take responsibilty or do something besides pointing fingers at others . Your problems are the results of your own famalies actions . </i><br /><br />You, sir or madam, will no doubt scream in outrage at the following analysis of your post. So take a deep breath and let fly -- your post is outrageously racist. <br /><br />Your viewpoint is an echo from centuries of European and Euro-American colonial racism and a shoutout in support its continuation. You are the inheritor of an ancient tradition of Africans, Asians, Native Americans, Hawaiians and uncounted other cultures being blamed for their condition by those who directly caused it or indirectly profited from it. <br /><br />Over the years, your forefathers have pinned "the native problem" on their heathen religion, their scandalous sexuality, their low intelligence, their lack of cultural sophistication, their backwoods clannishness and their backwards understanding of economics. Now it is your turn.<br /><br />You're off to an excellent start. In one post, you succeeded in boiling down a centuries-old pot of racism into a sludge of sixty words of truth: the truth of the fear, insensitivity, narcissism and stupidity that breeds attitudes like yours.Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-55284417965509145442014-11-11T19:58:40.114-10:002014-11-11T19:58:40.114-10:0010:59 "When land is rezoned, there should be ...10:59 "When land is rezoned, there should be some mechanism in place to ensure housing for all income levels."<br />A&B is required to build housing for all income levels at Kukuiula. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58292202434321007922014-11-11T19:57:48.887-10:002014-11-11T19:57:48.887-10:006:06 Why did you waste electrons and our time writ...6:06 Why did you waste electrons and our time writing that? We can tell the wheat from the chaff which you clearly represent.We're complaining about folks just like you and not everyone. Please take it personally. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-46986525976041849412014-11-11T19:04:59.720-10:002014-11-11T19:04:59.720-10:005:16 JoAnn Yukimura has done more to build long t...5:16 JoAnn Yukimura has done more to build long term affordable housing on Kauai than any other politician. Granted it has not been nearly enough and many of her efforts to hold the developers' feet to the fire on their housing requirements and agreements have been thwarted by the politicians that they have in their pockets. Check the record. You don't know what your talking about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61477929009433239302014-11-11T18:53:38.352-10:002014-11-11T18:53:38.352-10:00There's a couple of agriculture business model...There's a couple of agriculture business models that are present in Hawaii that are currently effective. The first is of the large farmer who puts a lot of resource behind a handful of products and then generates income by volume sales. Those fresh market products that the model applies to are fruits and vegetable. Especially those that weigh a lot and those for which there is a large amount of consumption (high demand). This model puts private resource behind land leasing, irrigation infrastructure investment, and couples them with solid business practices. This model targets specifically certain fresh food items and may, or may not, produce and sell lower volume market products, such as jalapeno peppers. The very fact that the farmer has the technology and infrastructure in place for the main crops allows for the smaller items to take advantage of the scale.<br /><br />The other model that, I think, is successful is the farm that focuses on 1 or 2 items only for which it gets very good at but does not make income off of fresh sales. The items that generate the income are value added. This returns 3 to 5 times as much income to the farmer as what the consumer is willing to pay for the fresh market version.<br /><br />Additionally there is a niche model that has developed which is, overall, organic production and products. Typically organic farmers grow a variety of fresh products so that they spread the risk. In some cases there may be premium prices too for the certified organic label. Which is a bonus. But this is a risky model. The trend is toward more organic food consumption but the reality is that it doesn't take much land to fill all of the demand for a product (organic and conventional). For example, to fill our entire statewide tomato consumption, for one year, it could all be done on less than 500 acres. The bottom line is that too many organic farms will mean competition that puts many of those farmers out of business or, at the very least, forces them to sell product for a loss.<br /><br />Within the organic model there is a possibility to focus on large consumption items that are heavy as well as a variety of possible value added products that would really tip the scales in favor of success, which is really what we desire as the end result of sustainability.<br /><br />So, for would-be farmers (conventional or organic): Study the market. Within the context of what is in greatest demand can it be grown? Can it be grown in quantity? Can it be value added?<br /><br />The basis for successful agriculture/business is to make sure your foundation is in place. That foundation should include your lease and your access to cash. Included in your lease is affordable irrigation water and energy. It is not possible for every fresh market crop we consume and can grow in Hawaii for this to work but there may be a few. <br /><br />In this grand quest that we are on for agricultural sustainability we either accept defeat in the effort to produce all of our food needs sustainably or we take pride in the fact that we able to market a few of those crops successfully and sustainably.<br /><br />P. S. Don't get me started on somehow producing our own sustainable inputs, such as fertiilizers, pest management products, lumber, paint, nails, vehicles, plastic, gasoline, etc.! If we are able to do that, along with meeting all of our food needs, then we will be truly sustainable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-18270945678817442652014-11-11T18:06:24.759-10:002014-11-11T18:06:24.759-10:00When will you "locals" stop biching abou...When will you "locals" stop biching about what is happening on Kauai ? You blame anyone and everyone about everything You were here first.... You should blame your Mothers and Fathers if you do not like the changes. Take responsibilty or do something besides pointing fingers at others . Your problems are the results of your own famalies actions . Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-88447254719999067772014-11-11T17:16:35.563-10:002014-11-11T17:16:35.563-10:00A couple of points-
Les Drent- Great article and m...A couple of points-<br />Les Drent- Great article and mostly true. Real Estate prices are high because the government will not re-zone land. The government squeezes the lifeblood out of anyone who wants to develop, whether for locals or new-comers. Ultimately, it is the wealthy who can afford property.<br />I am surprised that John Wehrheim has to tell us all what a great guy he is. Usually he s in the background. He is very smart and talented. His talents have been immensely multiplied by his wife , JoAnn Yukimura. All gates open when you have this asset.<br />John and JoAnn made a lot of money in their CPRing of Kalihiwai. He has had many sweetheart construction deals that appear to many to be because of his wife's influence. Also Bhutan in his fantasy, probably did not starve and expel 1/5th of it's Nepalese population...but I ramble. And John, the NorthShore may have been nice back in then, but still Haole John is not a proud moniker. Most of us old haoles that worked in Pine or construction back then made it straight up, do not call me Haole. There have been thousands of "Haole Boys" that got the racial moniker and they were always Haole Boys, forever, in the eyes of their co-workers.<br />Fact- JOANN Yukmura has been and is responsible for NO LOCAL housing. Her objective appears to have all the local people live in subsidized apartments (that end up costing more than single family homes). <br />She extorts huge dollars from any developer for her fantasies, loves to add sidewalks, waliking street dreams and other cost items and now she has her wish.....no development, no houses for the locals and only the wealthy can come and buy..JoAnn, the locals just like own one house..but, she is in tune with most of the newcomers and their lofty, anti-GMO ideals and the newcomers love her anti-development stand...after all they have their paradise now, so bring up the drawbridge.<br />Than you Les Drent and Joan Conrow.<br />No thanks to JoAnn Yukimura...as many live in three generation households due to her anti-Housing agenda.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-91596137424704504032014-11-11T16:37:23.653-10:002014-11-11T16:37:23.653-10:00Anonymous @3:37 -- In 1991 started working as a h...Anonymous @3:37 -- In 1991 started working as a hydropower consultant in Bhutan, an indigenous culture, totally organic, self-sufficient and like the pre-contact Hawaiians trying to live in sacred harmony with their environment. I knew it couldn’t last. It was a rare moment in time that would vanish like dew before a rising sun. In a way I felt it was like my time with the Akanas when I arrived on Kauai in 1970s—an aberration in the rapidly globalizing world. There was no TV on the North Shore then. For that brief moment Kauai had a period of low population, very localized communities and natural abundance—a breathing space as the engine of the plantation economy wound down and the real estate bonanza and cultural assault of tourism had yet to begin. TV came to Bhutan in 1999 and the Internet soon followed. People moved to town from the farms for education, cash jobs and stuff. Anyone well read in Hawaiian history (or the history of any indigenous culture…) knows that’s the way of our world; and it was certainly the migratory pattern of the kanaka population during the Monarchy. Bhutan is no longer food self-sufficient. However, they are energy self sufficient (hydropower) and make enough hard currency exporting electricity to India to import much of their food. How ya gonna keep ‘em down on the farm after they’ve seen Paree! John Wehrheimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-26025601256266824412014-11-11T16:25:05.097-10:002014-11-11T16:25:05.097-10:00Les Drent, thank you for articulating a REAL farme...Les Drent, thank you for articulating a REAL farmer's perspective of AG in Kauai as well as the State. I discussed with my good buddy from the Big Island that everyone should work on a farm as you grow up to truly appreciate what has been provided for you (I'm not talking about your back yard). The understanding of struggles and hardships farmers face has been lost. The only thing that continues to be passed on to the newer generations are perceived negative connotations of spraying. Education is the start, bolstering youths understanding of "bio-science, math, technology and business management" Les - well said. Another great Ag article from today: http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/can-hawaii-feed-itself/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-74197531797557440582014-11-11T16:14:42.641-10:002014-11-11T16:14:42.641-10:00Les, thanks for your snapshot of farming on Kauai ...Les, thanks for your snapshot of farming on Kauai today. I think one problem is that most people think the future will resemble the recent past. It will not, because it can not. If something is not sustainable it can not continue by definition. Industrial Ag food production is totally dependent on fossil fuel. We, in effect, are eating oil. Ten calories of oil are used to provide one calorie of food. Peak oil is now history. The easy low hanging oil is gone. Now we are polluting our ground water and our air to frack out and cook out the remains. The food industry is totally dependent on just in time deliveries and warehouse on wheels. There is a three day supply of food in the stores. Anyone who thinks that supply line will remain operational in the future is whistling past the graveyard. Anyone who thinks the only possible disruption to that supply line is a hurricane has not looked hard enough. There is a reason that our federal government is spending money like there is no tomorrow, they know what the future has coming our way, but they don't want you to know or to be prepared. The petrol dollar has no backing other than the U.S. military. The rest of the world is fed up with paying tribute to the U.S. empire and our unlimited money printing. How much food will you be buying when the dollar has no value? Every empire in history has collapsed, we are next. Anyone not paying attention to the earth changes and the cosmic events that are causing them is going to be rudely surprised. We can grow all the food we need on island. It was done in the past and it will be done in the future. It is the transition that will be difficult. The time to start making that transition painlessly has passed. Hard times and hunger are ahead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-39963930061650370032014-11-11T15:37:29.009-10:002014-11-11T15:37:29.009-10:00Once konohiki rights were no longer followed or re...Once konohiki rights were no longer followed or respected, the demise of the kanaka way was complete. Fisheries went downhill to the state they are today. Uncle Boy was the last Konohiki of Kahili Kai, Kalihiwai and Wanini. If kanaka could fish and farm like the not too distant past, we could be independent of the continent. Many indigenous cultures understand and do just that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-91708709187161579372014-11-11T15:09:41.776-10:002014-11-11T15:09:41.776-10:00Aloha Anonymous @ 12:18 -- I would guess that we ...Aloha Anonymous @ 12:18 -- I would guess that we don’t know each other as my friends from back in the day call me HJ. Uncle Boy Akana gave me the name “Haole John” and I wear it proudly. Uncle Boy was one of the finest men I’ve ever met—he had a natural nobility--kind, intelligent and with a wry sense of humor. He named me when I started working as a diver for Boy Akana Fisheries. There were three “Johns” on his boat and it became not only confusing but dangerous when he would bark out our orders as we scrambled to pin the nets, contain the pile and bang out the sharks. Since I was the only haole he straightaway cleared up the confusion and reduced his orders to the fewest words possible. <br />You are correct Anonymous @ 12:18 that years later I partnered with my good friend and neighbor Delbert Goo and we bought and restored 40 acres in the valley of what was then mostly abandoned lo’i and auwai covered in hau bush and unusable as a result of the tsunamis. Delbert bought 15 acres, I bought 25 and we worked together to build upon the foundation of the community that Delbert's father created soon after he arrived from China in the late 1800's. To finance the improvements we sold some of the land but most of it is still in our families. My daughter and her husband grow kalo, fruit, vegetables and raise goats. Our families are “self sufficient” in kalo, luau, ong choy, papayas, avos, peppers, citrus and bananas and our daughter markets her surplus. You might want to call it a Gentleman’s Country Estate but our daughter and son-in-law live in two 20 foot shipping containers cover with a totan roof. <br />Regarding my "hippie days" -- I've worked 2 or three jobs for the last 42 years on Kauai. Back in the day when I earned the name HJ I was the photography instructor at KCC, worked for Boy Akana Farms and Fisheries, started a banana farm up at Namahana, designed and built my first hydroelectric plant, was providing ag engineering and irrigation trenching services to other farmers and worked for Monsanto and No-Till Farmers Inc. doing field trials in Kilauea during the winters. I sited the Namahana hydro plant above series of lo'i and planted kalo. We used pressurized water from the system to irrigate our greenhouses (cucumbers and tomatoes…) and furrow irrigate our dry land (pake) kalo. I built a processing plant and worker housing supplied with water and electricity provided by the hydro. The control energy from the hydro gave the employees unlimited hot showers—a great comfort farming in that cold and wet climate. <br />Those were my “hippie days” Anonymous @ 12:18. <br />I first heard the term “Professional Hawaiian” from Uncle Boy. I had no idea what he was talking about and asked him what he meant. I’ll never forget his wry smile as he explained. I won’t repeat it here, as it is no longer politically correct. Let me just say this: When I got to Kauai I thought I knew what hard work was all about. I didn’t. Boy Akana and his family taught me.<br />John Wehrheimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-49213642309147651672014-11-11T15:04:05.356-10:002014-11-11T15:04:05.356-10:00Maybe not owned .....but certainly soldMaybe not owned .....but certainly soldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-52101928804166087832014-11-11T14:06:37.841-10:002014-11-11T14:06:37.841-10:00@12:39 - Taken straight from the journals of Thurs...@12:39 - Taken straight from the journals of Thurston and the like. That's where the first re-writing of our history began and continues today.<br /><br />All across Polynesia, land was not owned. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-60119851135178300122014-11-11T13:38:59.457-10:002014-11-11T13:38:59.457-10:00Excellent analysis from someone who knows what the...Excellent analysis from someone who knows what they are talking about with knowledge derived from real world direct experience as a practitioner!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com