tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post2645282074158778582..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: BuriedJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-51639486108667925072009-08-09T00:13:34.027-10:002009-08-09T00:13:34.027-10:00Bynum is showing us what a flake he is. Too bad h...Bynum is showing us what a flake he is. Too bad he can't spend as much time figuring out that this is after all.....politics, instead of whining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61395910112039183422009-08-08T10:33:28.128-10:002009-08-08T10:33:28.128-10:00"The next "revolution" will be the ..."The next "revolution" will be the haole newbies electing the Bynums and Kawaharas of the world. That's f-cking sad but that's life, eh."<br /><br />Maker sure you have strict immigration laws, that's where we screwed up - Native American saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-38025629063034783722009-08-07T19:17:21.598-10:002009-08-07T19:17:21.598-10:00"But, I won't be at every Council meeting..."But, I won't be at every Council meeting, just the important ones toward our... Revolution"<br /><br />I remember some of the hearings about Nukolii when there were so many more people involved and it seemed like a fight could break out at any time. The developer and the unions would bring in construction workers and hotel workers and the anti-development gang would be packed in the council chamber SRO. Back then, the issues pit friend against friend and family against family. It was heavy. Kaipo was right there in the mix - no worry, was long time ago and he no can get busted for that sh-t now. Not like the "civil" atmosphere now. The next "revolution" will be the haole newbies electing the Bynums and Kawaharas of the world. That's f-cking sad but that's life, eh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-52285930435178760162009-08-07T14:06:37.072-10:002009-08-07T14:06:37.072-10:00Deluded! It always a good day for a revolution. Hi...Deluded! It always a good day for a revolution. History is marked by a series of revolutions. Just when the fat cats get comfy sipping from their personal cream stream, pop goes the weasel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-38240250168688127832009-08-07T13:22:28.981-10:002009-08-07T13:22:28.981-10:00"But, I won't be at every Council meeting..."But, I won't be at every Council meeting, just the important ones toward our... Revolution."<br /><br />Using Council and Revolution in the same sentence shows how deluded you really are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-10647977179904968122009-08-07T12:53:30.616-10:002009-08-07T12:53:30.616-10:00Anon 6:34 AM asked: "It is quite obvious tha...Anon 6:34 AM asked: "It is quite obvious that the previous post was done by either Tim or Lani. My guess that it was Tim. Why don't you just post your name and be transparent? Don't hide behind "Anonymous" if you are an elected public figure."<br /><br />No, I am not Tim or Lani. Actually Tim came across both Council meetings on this as whining too much and he was looking at the audience and TV instead of Council members entirely too often. I am not an elected official and never will be. We can accomplish more unelected than the elected can if we know what we are doing.--Anon 1:14 AM<br /><br />whine --<br />v. whined, whin·ing, whines<br />v.intr.<br />1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.<br />2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.<br />v.tr.<br />To utter with a whine.<br />n.<br />1. The act of whining.<br />2. A whining sound.<br />[Middle English whinen, from Old English hwnan, to make a whizzing sound.]<br />whiner n.<br />whiny, whiney adj.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-39268995885148941052009-08-07T11:23:25.571-10:002009-08-07T11:23:25.571-10:00Anon 8:30 AM asked: "To the person who posted...Anon 8:30 AM asked: "To the person who posted on August 6, 2009 10:15 PM, you actually sat through that stuff? Are you the guy who always sits in line with the public speaker's chair so that you can be on TV? Or are you Glen Mickens or that other guy who always testifies? Whoever you are, I wish I had your free time."<br /><br />No, that's not me, actually I have been sitting where the cameras don't view. But, I won't be at every Council meeting, just the important ones toward our... Revolution. BTW, I make free time for this stuff.--Anon 10:15Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-59792513971349034642009-08-07T10:39:50.849-10:002009-08-07T10:39:50.849-10:00"To the person who posted on August 6, 2009 1..."To the person who posted on August 6, 2009 10:15 PM, you actually sat through that stuff? Are you the guy who always sits in line with the public speaker's chair so that you can be on TV?"<br /><br />that's Maui Brad, posting anonymously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-40069938934936628922009-08-07T10:32:36.613-10:002009-08-07T10:32:36.613-10:00"but if things go back to a closed agenda, yo..."but if things go back to a closed agenda, you can bet there will be a citizen effort to address this again, and it won't be as nice the next time around...we promise you that."<br /><br />oh, what, you're going to show up with the pitchforks? get real. nothing substantial has changed and you will soon see it for yourself. or maybe not. either way, the political machine rolls on and face it you aren't part of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45209892693210681022009-08-07T08:38:12.291-10:002009-08-07T08:38:12.291-10:00It is very clear that Tim and Lani are the conduit...It is very clear that Tim and Lani are the conduits for JoAnn's agenda. Lani can't think for herself because she has aligned herself with Tim. She hasnt even realized that she is being used by Tim for his personal agenda. Lani has a lot to offer. That is why I voted for her. I will never vote for Tim and if Lani continues to be his puppet, I will never vote for her either. I wish they could all take a step back and take an honest look at themselves. The kids on the playgrounds of elementary schools can resolve their issues much more diplomatically than this group of "leaders."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-8080556992968493512009-08-07T08:30:42.818-10:002009-08-07T08:30:42.818-10:00To the person who posted on August 6, 2009 10:15 P...To the person who posted on August 6, 2009 10:15 PM, you actually sat through that stuff? Are you the guy who always sits in line with the public speaker's chair so that you can be on TV? Or are you Glen Mickens or that other guy who always testifies? Whoever you are, I wish I had your free time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-21719655810462707892009-08-07T07:58:52.511-10:002009-08-07T07:58:52.511-10:00It's true that Joan is stuck in a superior, ju...It's true that Joan is stuck in a superior, judgmental attitude when covering non-kanaka maoli issues. I've noticed that. Living here for any number of decades does not give anyone license for such kama'aina arrogance. However, Joan's reporting on Hawaiian issues is unsurpassed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-63553923554975715202009-08-07T06:54:53.451-10:002009-08-07T06:54:53.451-10:00Message to Lani, Break up with Tim, you have poten...Message to Lani, Break up with Tim, you have potential, he's a loser. Please vote independent, it's important you do,for your future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-63589133468774285452009-08-07T06:53:28.608-10:002009-08-07T06:53:28.608-10:00Was the bill to let the planning dept enter into n...Was the bill to let the planning dept enter into no enforcement agreements on vacation rentals on ag land introduced by Tim? This was Joann's bill and it didn't pass before, so they keep on tryin. Where do the people get to live? Who do they represent?Grow food, not resorts on Kauai's ag land.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-35351252066922988572009-08-07T06:34:39.088-10:002009-08-07T06:34:39.088-10:00It is quite obvious that the previous post was don...It is quite obvious that the previous post was done by either Tim or Lani. My guess that it was Tim. Why don't you just post your name and be transparent? Don't hide behind "Anonymous" if you are an elected public figure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-88212228469722270292009-08-07T01:14:43.389-10:002009-08-07T01:14:43.389-10:00Anon 10:26 PM said: "CM Kawakami. He basicall...Anon 10:26 PM said: "CM Kawakami. He basically dissected Cm Kawahara and CM Bynum's argument that the only way to get items on the agenda were through the Council Chair."<br /><br />I like Derek, but he can't dissect diddly squat from a frog. They were talking about Rule 10 that requires no vote to get on the agenda. Derek was talking about Rule 15 that requires a supermajority to get on the agenda. A supermajority is 5 votes out of 7. They are totally unequal.<br /><br />"He got Lani to confess that she has not introduced anything thus could not have possibly been blocked by Asing. She said she is helping Tim."<br /><br />She later corrected herself on the record and pointed out that she co-introduced a number of bills with Tim. These were some of the bills that Tim could not get on the agenda going back to last Council. Lani first answered Derek the way she did because she was thinking he meant initiated, drafted, and sponsored the bill. Up until only a couple months ago the Council did not have staff attorney's to help them draft bills, do Lani has not been able to draft and introduce a bill until just recently. As a result, initially here, she was just helping Tim with some of the bills he already had drafted. She corrected this on the record a few minutes later. <br /><br />"He had CM Bynum looking foolish that he didn't even know that he had an alternative option."<br /><br />Tim knew about Rule 15, but it is not equal to Rule 10. Any reasonably astute legislator would not even compare the two.<br /><br />"And to top it off, CM Bynum calls the County Attorney up for clarification and the CA states that Kawakami is indeed correct."<br /><br />Actually, the CA said he would not answer that hypothetical question. The CA did not state Kawakami was correct. The CA did not answer a question about Rule 15, nor prior notice, nor the Sunshine Law at that point. The CA only said that he would make the general statement that Council members have opportunities to get items on the agenda within the existing Rules. That can mean just about anything.<br /><br />"How come no one else brought up the other way a CM can get an item on the agenda."<br /><br />They didn't bring it up because the Rule 15 supermajority is not equal to no vote at all to get on the agenda. Derek is becoming notorious for coming out of left field with a statement or question showing he's a little bit green and wet behind the ears.<br /><br />I guess we shouldn't expect a high level of discernment here when the usual writing here doesn't require it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-89183027856332336052009-08-07T00:45:52.013-10:002009-08-07T00:45:52.013-10:00Anon 10:37 PM said: "Yes they all know how to...Anon 10:37 PM said: "Yes they all know how to do it but it wasn't Lani who taught them. CM Kawakami was the one who brought it up..."<br /><br />Wrong. Derek was talking about Rule 15. And yesterday was the first time he mentioned it which requires a 2/3rds supermajority to use...worthless. The "Communications" technique only requires a majority and it was JoAnn Yukimura who pointed it out to the players a number of weeks ago. Must I keep on correcting these type of comments?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58691454259495946702009-08-06T22:41:15.503-10:002009-08-06T22:41:15.503-10:00The only thing they didn't do is pass the rule...The only thing they didn't do is pass the rule change to Rule 10(c), but if things go back to a closed agenda, you can bet there will be a citizen effort to address this again, and it won't be as nice the next time around...we promise you that.<br /><br />Yep, you've been really civil in your comments about Kaipo. I've read the letters on Tim and Lani's website. Are you one of those who write so authoritatively after having lived here all of what, one, five, ten years? You have the luxury to sit through those hearings? Why not pick up rubbish or tutor some kids and make yourself useful for a change. Oh, I get it, posting here is the service that you provide since the Garden Island and Hoike fail to adequately convey what happened and you have the skill to do what no one else can. Sheesh, what an ego.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-20412250927092120642009-08-06T22:37:53.602-10:002009-08-06T22:37:53.602-10:00All Council members have now figured out how to us...All Council members have now figured out how to use the "Communication" technique to get things on the agenda regardless of Kaipo's initials.<br /><br />Yes they all know how to do it but it wasn't Lani who taught them. CM Kawakami was the one who brought it up. Keep up the good work JoanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58809972553807671982009-08-06T22:26:23.177-10:002009-08-06T22:26:23.177-10:00I am not a fan of the 3 D's but after watching...I am not a fan of the 3 D's but after watching the meeting, the only one to bring any substance to the table was CM Kawakami. He basically dissected Cm Kawahara and CM Bynum's argument that the only way to get items on the agenda were through the Council Chair. He got Lani to confess that she has not introduced anything thus could not have possibly been blocked by Asing. She said she is helping Tim. He had CM Bynum looking foolish that he didn't even know that he had an alternative option. And to top it off, CM Bynum calls the County Attorney up for clarification and the CA states that Kawakami is indeed correct. How come no one else brought up the other way a CM can get an item on the agenda. I have to admit, I have posted some unfriendly comments toward CM Kawakami here before but I have followed the meetings and he may not speak as often as the others but when he does....he makes sense. In this meeting....he pretty much took over. Don't know why Jay ended up voting with Kawahara and Bynum....maybe he wasn't listening to the points being made which isn't a surprise since he is the original "I" man....I did this, I did that, I worked here, I introduced thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-8862826418571571322009-08-06T22:15:08.945-10:002009-08-06T22:15:08.945-10:00Joan said: "But who, really, besides the poli...Joan said: "But who, really, besides the politically naïve, imagined that things would be significantly different after the recent brouhaha, or that “reform” was ever going to be an item on the Council’s agenda?"<br /><br />Let's see. They got the Minutes on the website in OCR. They got two new email addresses with one for testimony and the other for email direct to all of the council members, so now they don't have to be printed out to hardcopy and then distributed inconsistently, incompletely, and untimely to the Council members. Incoming hardcopy mail for agenda items from departments and the public has now become available in a breakroom file to all members (not just some) on a timely basis which was not done before. Ordinance bill text will be available on www.kauaiinfo.org until they start showing up on www.kauai.gov. All Council members have now figured out how to use the "Communication" technique to get things on the agenda regardless of Kaipo's initials. And lastly, Kaipo promised yesterday that he will not be authoritarian and will establish an open policy to allow any member's items on the agenda. Two of Kaipo's supporting Council members said they will vote to allow other members items on the agenda. That's 5 (6 including Kaipo) who are on the record for an open agenda. The only thing they didn't do is pass the rule change to Rule 10(c), but if things go back to a closed agenda, you can bet there will be a citizen effort to address this again, and it won't be as nice the next time around...we promise you that.<br /><br />"It brings to mind a conversation I had with a relative newcomer to the island who approached me on Tuesday saying, “Isn’t it great that the Council is going to be more open?” And that prompted me to reply, “I don’t think anything is really going to change,”..."<br /><br />See above list of changes. While you were wallowing in your negativity, Joan, everything changed.<br /><br />"I’m generally a fan of...turning the otherwise dreary Council proceedings into a Hoike docudrama."<br /><br />I noticed that Joan. You rely on a few days old incomplete coverage from Hoike as a shortcut to try and follow what is happening with the Council. Kaipo is right on this point, you have to be there in the Chambers to know what is really going on there. There are things that don't show up on Hoike. And no reporter, not even the current diligent TGI reporters can report on everything that is going on there. If you just read their reporting and try to blog second hand on that, you won't get the story, Joan.<br /><br />"...and yesterday’s shut down indicated that Lani and Tim have been rendered effectively impotent for the duration of their terms by their bold, if impolitic, move to challenge Chair Kaipo Asing’s leadership."<br /><br />The truly politically astute would recognize that depending on how they handle it from here on out, they got everything they set out for. Only the rule change on the agenda was not done, but if you were paying attention, you'd see they don't need it anymore. They now have all the tools they need to get their issues onto the agenda.<br /><br />"One longtime Council observer told me that Lani had come off as a fresh new face battling the status quo and the old boy’s network..."<br /><br />Again, waiting for the Hoike tape, you would not know that Lani handled herself outstandingly, professionally and assertatively, yesterday. The same cannot be said for Tim. Right now Lani is already better than JoAnn. That would be clear to you if you saw JoAnn's testimony re: TVA's on ag land yesterday.<br /><br />"Perhaps the recent events will serve to more thoroughly inform some of the newbies of just how Kauai politics work...so they can drop their dreamy-eyed vision..."<br /><br />"Newbies" don't need to be informed by the old failed ways of narrow-minded, pessimistic, quitters. The world is changing very quickly, Joan. Some do not recognize it, but the crusaders do, and we will not stop until Kaua'i bridges the gap to real sustainability. You have not seen what we are going to do. You can count on it, Ms. Conrow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-88686852144893915182009-08-06T21:48:11.871-10:002009-08-06T21:48:11.871-10:00"Having sat through the tumultuous hearings a..."Having sat through the tumultuous hearings at the Planning Commission and council back in the seventies and eighties, I can assure that Tim and Lani don't come close to Kaipo and Joann in their heyday."<br /><br />-- your comment strikes me as probably accurate; ill take that at face value, for now. but an interesting comment / perspective for sure. thanks for offering it<br /><br /><br />dwpsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-82319709788637778472009-08-06T21:39:52.663-10:002009-08-06T21:39:52.663-10:00Have you met either Tim or Lani in person? Surely ...Have you met either Tim or Lani in person? Surely you don't consider them charismatic leaders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30344812868724870172009-08-06T21:38:21.577-10:002009-08-06T21:38:21.577-10:00Hardly premature. Have you watched the council or ...Hardly premature. Have you watched the council or tracked their positions? Having sat through the tumultuous hearings at the Planning Commission and council back in the seventies and eighties, I can assure that Tim and Lani don't come close to Kaipo and Joann in their heyday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-20043579822291852322009-08-06T21:38:19.890-10:002009-08-06T21:38:19.890-10:00Hardly premature. Have you watched the council or ...Hardly premature. Have you watched the council or tracked their positions? Having sat through the tumultuous hearings at the Planning Commission and council back in the seventies and eighties, I can assure that Tim and Lani don't come close to Kaipo and Joann in their heyday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com