tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post4193631102258364905..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Kick 'Em While They're DownJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-76146400233549051362016-01-17T17:11:09.438-10:002016-01-17T17:11:09.438-10:00so i guess all those sold out farmers markets and ...so i guess all those sold out farmers markets and value added products flying off the shelves are figments of our imaginationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-82148657063865265912016-01-16T22:09:26.225-10:002016-01-16T22:09:26.225-10:00Looking forward to your critique, Joan. I do hope ...Looking forward to your critique, Joan. I do hope you can do it without referring to the author in a personal way, though. I would really prefer to learn more about your opinion of the issues addressed in the article. Mahalo nui! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-77692748093712156802016-01-16T22:04:18.827-10:002016-01-16T22:04:18.827-10:009:42 AM - You should go to Cuba and see how well s...9:42 AM - You should go to Cuba and see how well socialism and government control of the land/economy has done in half a century. I just came back. They're still using oxen and wooden plows for farming and horse carts for transportation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-32503197734057102992016-01-16T10:24:17.003-10:002016-01-16T10:24:17.003-10:00I'm glad to hear that, because I am planning s...I'm glad to hear that, because I am planning such a post. Look for it in the next day or two.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-60533624173216478722016-01-16T10:13:46.358-10:002016-01-16T10:13:46.358-10:00Joan, We already know you do not approve of Andrea...Joan, We already know you do not approve of Andrea. How about a critique of the article? Would like to hear more about the message and less about the messenger. I myself did read the article. I do not know Andrea. But I do find the article to be quite informative and intellectually stimulating. Would love to hear your take on it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-68990325590096997732016-01-16T10:05:04.183-10:002016-01-16T10:05:04.183-10:00Ah, yes. Andrea will lead the revolution from the ...Ah, yes. Andrea will lead the revolution from the comfort of her father's gentleman estate, her own privileged existence financed by the construction of luxury private homes in an occupied land. Do tell us all about the struggle of the landless peasants, Andrea.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-20620258134903673362016-01-16T09:42:00.213-10:002016-01-16T09:42:00.213-10:00@3:36PM, 3:49PM, 8:19PM and @those who may be inte...@3:36PM, 3:49PM, 8:19PM and @those who may be interested in self-sufficiency, Here is a very good article from todayʻs Huffington Post- >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea-brower/thinking-globally-and-sys_b_8986786.html?utm_hp_ref=hawaii&ir=Hawaii << And a piece of the article- "In contrast, social movements are asserting the possibility of an agricultural system designed to feed people rather than corporate profit. Resisting dominant ideas that have long justified extreme inequality and dispossession of indigenous and peasant producers, the food sovereignty movement is claiming alternative potentials in the commons, democracy, equitable distribution, respect for place and diversity, and agroecology. Rooted in their rights to land, water, seed, knowledge, culture, and livelihoods, some call the peasant-led food sovereignty movement the largest in the world. Organizations like La Via Campesina bring together 200 million small and medium-sized farmers, as well as landless people, migrants and agricultural workers. They are defending against land grabs, "free trade," enclosure of seed and genetic commons, corporate power, human rights violations, environmental degradation, and policies that create hunger. In their mobilizations, they are making systemic connections between what appear as singular and isolated injustices."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61765690103571638472016-01-15T21:17:48.138-10:002016-01-15T21:17:48.138-10:00cap·i·tal·ism
ˈkapədlˌizəm/
noun
an economic and p...cap·i·tal·ism<br />ˈkapədlˌizəm/<br />noun<br />an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-57250291744789841362016-01-15T20:19:39.906-10:002016-01-15T20:19:39.906-10:00Growing food and self sufficiency is not gonna hap...Growing food and self sufficiency is not gonna happen because of the REALTOR'S and the mega bucks it costs to buy property on Kauai. Not that many years ago, many organic farmers sought to grow food and make it happen only to realize that they couldn't make a profit or pay their mortgage or afford to send their kids to good schools as the cost of the land was way more than they could ever make in selling produce. So most of the good farmers stopped farming and sold the land. <br />Others like Neal Norman sold agriculture parcels and continue to do so over and over again and are making millions selling real estate instead of oranges and avocados. <br />Why is OK for real estate brokers to make millions of dollars of profits, but not others? Why is OK when they are the very ones responsible for the price of agriculture land being so high no one can afford to be a farmer and grow the islands sustainability? Lots of double speak from commenters. It's the Real estate brokers of Kauai that made it so land is too expensive to farm, why don't they care? Blame the folks at Hawaii Life for the lack of farming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-20215710584174976172016-01-15T15:49:01.984-10:002016-01-15T15:49:01.984-10:00My goodness! It seems to me that donkeys like 1:07...My goodness! It seems to me that donkeys like 1:07PM should, rather than braying about "problems" they have insufficiently mastered, decamp to the nearest command economy that suits their taste for expropriating private property and ordering the proletariat into the fields to feed everyone. North Korea comes to mind- self sufficient for the most part by enforcing starvation since their farming methods, while conforming to good organic practice (nightsoil, low chem inputs, etc.) aren't too productive. The Kauai delegation to Syngenta's annual meeting needs to try the North Korean low calorie diet for good svelte results. If Korea is a bit too temperate for your taste, Venezuela would be a tasty tropical compromise- experienced in land expropriation, import banning and starving its people. You folks need to step back from your useless disaffected nattering. It is no longer even entertaining and has become a nagging hemorrhoid on the body politic. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-68165725596990838002016-01-15T15:39:23.703-10:002016-01-15T15:39:23.703-10:00Those against capitalism are hypocrites as they se...Those against capitalism are hypocrites as they sell the use of their bodies for money every day at work. And if you can save one cent of your pay, then you're profiting!!! Ooo, horrors!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-66829057424411906342016-01-15T15:36:55.403-10:002016-01-15T15:36:55.403-10:00Would some one please explain to me why food self-...Would some one please explain to me why food self-sufficiency is such an essential goal when it will always be cheaper and easier to grow, produce and ship food into here from the mainland? Two huge hurricanes have proven that no one ever staved, or will ever starve, because of their disruption. And of course, the term "peak oil" is all over the headlines! NOT! But maybe it's just those folks who are so gullible and fearful that they believe the anti's lies and have absolutely zero confidence in man's ability devise and develop solutions to problems like the eventual demise of fossil fuels. I'd really like to hear the argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-42707930111948973042016-01-15T15:27:05.447-10:002016-01-15T15:27:05.447-10:0012:32 PM - That one commenter's claim that the...12:32 PM - That one commenter's claim that the big landowners don't own their land is, well, bull poo. If it were so, every frickin' couch potato, handout grasping, self-styled Kanaka Maole activist would have the Native Hawaiian Legal Foundation suing to get that land at no cost to them. He/She's been reading (and believing) too much of convicted felon David Keanu Sai's made up confidence schemes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30757183584538901822016-01-15T13:31:39.537-10:002016-01-15T13:31:39.537-10:00I'm a pragmatist. The capitalist system, with ...I'm a pragmatist. The capitalist system, with all its many drawbacks, is the world's dominant system. Until it's changed, we have to be realistic and work within it. I agree that it's great to work toward local food self-sufficiency. But it requires people with the desire and skill to make it happen. And unless you can convince the state to subsidize it, which doesn't seem likely, given that just 1 percent of the state's budget is allocated to ag, people need investment capital to start up a viable farm.<br /><br />Growing food for local consumption could be made more economically viable through achieving economies of scale, supporting local slaughterhouses and processing facilities, disruptions in the supply of imported food (though that could also impact the supply of inputs needed to grow even organic crops), reducing the regulatory burden on small farmers and taxing the hell out of imports, though that would make it harder for people to feed their families.<br /><br />There are no easy answers here, which is why banishing the seed companies will do nothing to increase the production of food for local consumption. And as I've noted numerous times, the seed companies are actually supporting local food production by sub-leasing land and maintaining the irrigation systems and roads that small farmers also use.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-18895940736183541222016-01-15T13:07:04.463-10:002016-01-15T13:07:04.463-10:00Seems like Joan is a dyed in the wool capitalist. ...Seems like Joan is a dyed in the wool capitalist. Where profit and greed are the bottom line. An obsolete system which is destroying our world. Gotta make money for something to happen. Even within the capitalistic model, there is room to create complete food self-sufficiency in Hawaiʻi. How many trillions and billions of dollars are wasted wasted by government on things like killing people, advertising, and subsidies? If Hawaiʻi ever finds itself cut off from the world, what an obscenity it would be that some might starve because there wasnʻt enough "money" to encourage people to grow food for local consumption. Eliminating our dependency on foreign food sources is one of the most crucial problems we face today. I cannot understand how the chem-seed companies are contributing to food self-sufficiency at all- in fact, they seem to be intent on making people more dependent upon them for all of our food needs. Joan, as a capitalist, how do you think growing food for local consumption can be made economically viable? Just to say that it is not is not addressing the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58210060998681850822016-01-15T12:48:54.885-10:002016-01-15T12:48:54.885-10:0012:32 -- That is a topic you'd have to take up...12:32 -- That is a topic you'd have to take up with one of the sovereignty groups, because it's not my area of expertise. I don't think anybody's going to be taking any land from the Big 5 any time soon, regardless of the status of their land titles.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-55407942189916415252016-01-15T12:32:50.173-10:002016-01-15T12:32:50.173-10:00Joan, How can you take land from someone who doesn...Joan, How can you take land from someone who doesnʻt own it? It is my understanding that the Big 5 do not have clear title to their land. Something to do with alloidial title, maybe? It seems that a land title scam has been going on for a long time in Hawaiʻi. Joan, please educate us as to how valid the land titles are of the Big 5. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-13784990761677574862016-01-15T10:52:53.533-10:002016-01-15T10:52:53.533-10:0010:35 -- You obviously failed to notice that 6:08 ...10:35 -- You obviously failed to notice that 6:08 was being sarcastic. Hey, if people could actually make money off growing food for local consumption, it would be happening on a major scale. But it's not, because it's not economically viable. Get out of your dream world, which includes "taking" land from the Big 5, and face reality. <br /><br />Plus you apparently missed the comments from the anti-ag folks on Maui who did not want plantation workers to have land because they might -- gasp -- grow transgenic papaya. Best get your comrades in line, and ready to do field work, before you launch the revolution.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-66622412721318382662016-01-15T10:43:15.903-10:002016-01-15T10:43:15.903-10:00Companies who support communities and treat their ...Companies who support communities and treat their neighbors with respect have no problems with those neighbors. Companies who ignore their neighbors complaints (Dupont Pioneer in Waimea) lose trust in their communities. The best companies do not find themselves detested by many countries and millions of people round the world for the way they do business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58614941744442356832016-01-15T10:35:44.351-10:002016-01-15T10:35:44.351-10:00Joan says, "Why do you think the state and b...Joan says, "Why do you think the state and big landowners were so keen to see biotech expand?" The answer is $$$$$$, money and profit are the bottom line. Not self-sufficiency in food or malama "āina. Big landowners do not have proper title to their lands- it does not actually belong to them. 6:08 is on the right track. Take back the land from the big land owners and put it into the hands of the people (like the employees of the biotech companies). Big landowners are the problem- not the solution. Big landowners are the reason we are not self-sufficient in food today. Instead of maintaining traditional agriculture methods employed by traditional culture, they rely on mono-cropping for export, which creates no food to feed us here. Thus we become enslaved to a system created by foreign companies and illegal land "owners" who care nothing at all about growing healthy food for local consumption. So yes- take back the land from the rich and allow the "poor" to use it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-30659136714854809832016-01-15T10:15:36.337-10:002016-01-15T10:15:36.337-10:0010:11. No to people who try to foist their beliefs...10:11. No to people who try to foist their beliefs on others and create problems with companies that are supporting our community. No to fear-mongering. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-17858913543136209022016-01-15T10:11:09.778-10:002016-01-15T10:11:09.778-10:004:41...Yes to jobs and culture. Yes to cautionary ...4:41...Yes to jobs and culture. Yes to cautionary principal. No to harmful pesticides. Yes to jobs which contribute to harmony and healthy (mental and physical) communities. No to companies which do not act as good neighbors or create problems in their communities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-24027762745213052702016-01-15T09:52:38.440-10:002016-01-15T09:52:38.440-10:00Fern: fricking dumb hippie. Poser that's a FAD...Fern: fricking dumb hippie. Poser that's a FAD attention getter. FB stalkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-79961065256549109682016-01-15T09:32:59.051-10:002016-01-15T09:32:59.051-10:006:80 - You forgot "Vote for Bernie Sanders!&q...6:80 - You forgot "Vote for Bernie Sanders!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-73205161592502641062016-01-15T07:12:52.146-10:002016-01-15T07:12:52.146-10:006:08. No forget Mason and Gary's two security ...6:08. No forget Mason and Gary's two security fo protection Fern and Malia, just like Switzerland. Hee heeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com