tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post493424837862855988..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Spun HoneyJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-1456773847530622162016-02-01T14:09:20.800-10:002016-02-01T14:09:20.800-10:00Wait am I reading this correctly?
Study says: gl...Wait am I reading this correctly? <br /><br />Study says: glyphosate in Kauai honey found<br />Douglas Gates: "I personally supplied over half of the samples for the study"<br />Douglas Gates: "look at the seralini report"<br />Douglas Gates: "ANY AMOUNT OF GLYPHOSATE IN HONEY OR ANYTHING IS NOT SAFE IN MY HUMBLE OPINION."<br />Douglas Gates: "Direct correlation of pesticides killing off wild bee populations"<br /><br />Back to the first post: "I personally supplied over half of the samples for the study"<br />Conclusion: If you did provide "over half the study samples" it is a clear conflict of interest. Can we trust these results?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-59758815388220061652016-01-27T06:56:47.967-10:002016-01-27T06:56:47.967-10:00Douglas Gates: More on the discredited Seralini s...Douglas Gates: More on the discredited Seralini study:<br /><br />http://retractionwatch.com/2016/01/27/seralini-paper-claiming-gmo-toxicity-disappears-after-journal-domain-expires/<br /><br /><i>A paper claiming genetically modified corn may be toxic over long periods has disappeared one day after it was presented at a press conference, after the journal’s domain name expired.<br /><br />The publisher, Scholarly Journals, is listed among the “potential, possible, or probable” predatory publishers compiled by Jeffrey Beall.</i><br /><br />In other words, pay to publish.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-33830009137139283742016-01-27T05:55:18.176-10:002016-01-27T05:55:18.176-10:00Mr. Gates: Perhaps you missed the joint communique...Mr. Gates: Perhaps you missed the joint communique of six of the French National Academies of Sciences on the on the glyphosate/maize study Seralini authored and orchestrated a propaganda campaign for. The link to an English translation is here: http://www.academie-sciences.fr/pdf/rapport/avis1012_gb.pdf You seem to have skipped though the meadow of GMO scientific research selecting cowpies by GMO activists. You need to be more careful of where you put your feet before you try to get the rest of us to follow your trail, especially if you are going to be so insistent- at least those of us who are not on the KKCR wavelength. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-91702153623653460332016-01-26T12:11:51.886-10:002016-01-26T12:11:51.886-10:00Re: your comment at 12:09
Where are the citation ...Re: your comment at 12:09<br /><br />Where are the citation links?Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-52749438793771661072016-01-26T12:10:45.870-10:002016-01-26T12:10:45.870-10:00Douglas, those are not links to scientific journal...Douglas, those are not links to scientific journals that either prove or published the Seralini study. They are advocacy sites, and Seralilni's site.<br /><br />You've got to learn how to find good sources, or else your assumptions, and thus your comments, are just a lot of hocus-pocus hot air.<br /><br />You also need to be wary of confusing correlation with causation, especially when your correlations are based on graphics provided by advocacy groups.<br /><br />http://boingboing.net/2013/01/01/correlation-between-autism-dia.htmlJoan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-27559288224506232742016-01-26T12:09:29.653-10:002016-01-26T12:09:29.653-10:00Dr Michael Antoniou, a molecular geneticist based ...Dr Michael Antoniou, a molecular geneticist based in London, commented, “Few studies would survive such intensive scrutiny by fellow scientists. The republication of the study after three expert reviews is a testament to its rigour, as well as to the integrity of the researchers.<br /><br />“If anyone still doubts the quality of this study, they should simply read the republished paper. The science speaks for itself.<br /><br />“If even then they refuse to accept the results, they should launch their own research study on these two toxic products that have now been in the human food and animal feed chain for many years.”<br /><br />Dr Jack A Heinemann, Professor of Molecular Biology and Genetics, University of Canterbury New Zealand, called the republication “an important demonstration of the resilience of the scientific community”. Dr Heinemann continued, “The first publication of these results revealed some of the viciousness that can be unleashed on researchers presenting uncomfortable findings. I applaud Environmental Sciences Europe for submitting the work to yet another round of rigorous blind peer review and then bravely standing by the process and the recommendations of its reviewers, especially after witnessing the events surrounding the first publication.<br /><br />“This study has arguably prevailed through the most comprehensive and independent review process to which any scientific study on GMOs has ever been subjected.<br /><br />“The work provides important new knowledge that must be taken into account by the community that evaluates and reports upon the risks of genetically modified organisms, indeed upon all sources of pesticide in our food and feed chains. In time these findings must be verified by repetition or challenged by superior experimentation. In my view, nothing constructive for risk assessment or promotion of GM biotechnology has been achieved by attempting to expunge these data from the public record.”Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-90070695027839570862016-01-26T12:05:27.769-10:002016-01-26T12:05:27.769-10:00What's with all the people who are not willing...What's with all the people who are not willing to say who they are?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-63318392930089643442016-01-26T12:03:27.783-10:002016-01-26T12:03:27.783-10:00IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE MISSED THE NEWS...IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE MISSED THE NEWS...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-72689629880978315952016-01-26T12:02:48.561-10:002016-01-26T12:02:48.561-10:00Joan,
ANY AMOUNT OF GLYPHOSATE IN HONEY OR ANYTHI...Joan,<br /><br />ANY AMOUNT OF GLYPHOSATE IN HONEY OR ANYTHING IS NOT SAFE IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.<br /><br />The seralini study has been republished. google it.<br /><br />https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwitnoLpvMjKAhUBWGMKHSWqDLQQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalresearch.ca%2Ftoxicity-of-gmos-and-pesticides-seralinis-team-wins-defamation-and-forgery-court-cases%2F5492480&usg=AFQjCNHyVsmNZbr9W58cLtcVOYNvjUSyiQ&sig2=jNxTa4hp_7-0vF9G3qsWWg<br /><br />https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwitnoLpvMjKAhUBWGMKHSWqDLQQFggmMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnaturalsociety.com%2Fhuge-seralini-wins-defamation-forgery-court-cases-gmo-research%2F&usg=AFQjCNGoiNi15yjA91e6K7EJCcIycu5umw&sig2=c2m6HL9rptGnNYxDiknEdA<br /><br />https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi24bipvcjKAhVE3GMKHatpB5UQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmoseralini.org%2Frepublication-seralini-study-science-speaks%2F&usg=AFQjCNGD0aGY_MORPlBv76wZa7_9L-shZw&sig2=XI0__T40qD59t8OagO9fxA<br /><br />This follow-up investigation conducted by Dr. Michael Antoniou’s team at King’s College London was a follow up to Seralini’s 2-year study of rats exposed to Roundup that the biotech industry tried desperately to silence. Sites like the Genetic Literacy Project are still attempting to dismiss Seralini’s findings, but with additional studies like Antoniou’s, their arguments become baseless.<br /><br />http://ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/wildbeemap1.jpg<br />http://ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/wildbeemap2.jpg<br /><br />Look at these maps of wild bee populations, NONE IN THE WHOLE MISSISSIPPI RIVER VALLEY FROM CANADA TO THE GULF OF MEXICO.<br /><br />Now look at this map of pesticides being used.<br /><br />http://water.usgs.gov/nawqa/pnsp/usage/maps/show_map.php?year=2012&map=24D&hilo=L&disp=2,4-D<br /><br />http://water.usgs.gov/nawqa/pnsp/usage/maps/compound_listing.php<br /><br />Direct correlation of pesticides killing off wild bee populations.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-38893351950301847062016-01-26T11:25:19.667-10:002016-01-26T11:25:19.667-10:00I don't claim to know everything. Most importa...I don't claim to know everything. Most importantly, I know enough to remain silent when I don't know what I'm talking about, which is not true for either you or Jimmy.<br /><br />It seems you missed the news that the Seralini study was retracted as well by the Journal of Food and Chemical Toxicology.<br />https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/elsevier-announces-article-retraction-from-journal-food-and-chemical-toxicology<br /><br />"The journal Food and Chemical Toxicology retracts the article “Long term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize,” which was published in this journal in November 2012. This retraction comes after a thorough and time-consuming analysis of the published article and the data it reports, along with an investigation into the peer-review behind the article."<br /><br />So please provide a citation for your claim that it "has been proven accurate."<br /><br />Also, even if one were to accept the study in Environmental Health Journal, it cites results from a two-year study of water fed to rats. In other words, chronic exposure. It's quite a leap for you to use that to draw any kind of conclusions about the glyphosate levels found in a one time honey sampling.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-88619072559596623262016-01-26T10:35:38.292-10:002016-01-26T10:35:38.292-10:00Joan,
wildly speculate about cause and effect whe...Joan,<br /> wildly speculate about cause and effect when he really doesn't know diddly. <br />and you do? You are doing the same in support of gmo.<br />This honey test also (to me) is about homeowner usage.<br />As you will see I draw conclusions from many reports.<br /><br />WTF!!!<br />Do your research... the Seralini study has been proven accurate<br /><br />Liver and kidney damage due to a diet full of genetically modified food has already been shown in a notable, yet controversial study that was once forced to be retracted, and then later republished by the Journal of Food and Chemical Toxicology. This study, titled the “Long Term Toxicity of Roundup Herbicide and a Roundup-Tolerant Genetically Modified Maize” is joined now by a new, peer-reviewed study showing that even at the levels of glyphosate the general public is exposed to in drinking water, over 4000 genes and their proper functioning are altered in the livers and kidneys of rats.<br /><br />Are we affected too?<br /><br />Published in the Environmental Health Journal, the new study suggests that even super low levels of Roundup exposure are deadly.<br /><br />The study results showed that exposure to low-dose glyphosate concentrations, in an established laboratory animal toxicity model system, can result in liver and kidney damage, with potential significant health implications for people as well as our pets and wildlife populations.<br /><br />Here is an overview given by the study abstract:<br /><br /> “Glyphosate-based herbicides (GBH) are the major pesticides used worldwide. Converging evidence suggests that GBH, such as Roundup, pose a particular health risk to liver and kidneys although low environmentally relevant doses have not been examined. To address this issue, a 2-year study in rats administering 0.1 ppb Roundup (50 ng/L glyphosate equivalent) via drinking water…was conducted.<br /><br /> A marked increased incidence of anatomorphological and blood/urine biochemical changes was indicative of liver and kidney structure and functional pathology….”<br /><br />This follow-up investigation conducted by Dr. Michael Antoniou’s team at King’s College London was a follow up to Seralini’s 2-year study of rats exposed to Roundup that the biotech industry tried desperately to silence. Sites like the Genetic Literacy Project are still attempting to dismiss Seralini’s findings, but with additional studies like Antoniou’s, their arguments become baseless.<br /><br />Here’s why:<br /><br /> The Seralini investigation administered a commercial Roundup formulation at 0.1 ppb (parts per billion)/50 ppt (parts per trillion) glyphosate via drinking water for 2 years. Liver and kidney pathologies were found in the rats. The new study by Dr. Antoniou’s team investigated whether heightened liver and kidney pathology observed at an anatomical and biochemical level was reflected in the gene expression pattern. “Transcriptome” was analyzed, by comparing liver and kidney tissues from the Roundup treatment group with those of the control animals.Here’s what Dr. Antoniou said about what they found, “The findings of our study are very worrying as they confirm that a very low level of consumption of Roundup weedkiller over the long term can result in liver and kidney damage. Our results also suggest that regulators should re-consider the safety evaluation of glyphosate-based herbicides.”<br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-5890562712730738562016-01-25T19:19:00.186-10:002016-01-25T19:19:00.186-10:00Yes, Douglas Gates, Jimmy did do something wrong, ...Yes, Douglas Gates, Jimmy did do something wrong, which was to wildly speculate about cause and effect when he really doesn't know diddly. <br /><br />And now you're doing the same thing in your own way, drawing conclusions informed by the discredited Seralini study.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-76248659786807435432016-01-25T19:03:13.464-10:002016-01-25T19:03:13.464-10:00This has got to stop....
Jimmy has done nothing w...This has got to stop....<br /><br />Jimmy has done nothing wrong...<br />I as a concerned beekeeper here on Kauai, I personally supplied over half of the samples for the study... I know the results...I will talk freely about the results, Just contact me.<br />15 Koloa 0<br /> 16 Puhi 0<br />17 Kokee 0<br /> 22 Hanapepe 0<br /> 18 Poipu 9.6<br />20 Kam feral 1 155.2 4 29<br />8 Kam feral 3 61.4 4 29 15<br />14 Kamakani 341.6 1 22 14<br />6 kahaka 80.2<br />21 fer 2 kam 32.6 4 29<br />All these were collected by ME...<br />This is not good.<br />European union says 0.1 ppb is acceptable, usa has no numbers... look at the seralini report<br /><br />STOP TRASHING JIMMY... He has nothing to do with the queen rearing project...<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-9430182019066036422016-01-25T19:00:46.413-10:002016-01-25T19:00:46.413-10:00Jimmy is not the enemy but needs to face reality. ...Jimmy is not the enemy but needs to face reality. As a former bee keeper I must say having a sticker to say your honey is awesome and has no residual of any complex element is wonderful. But bees do not harvest pollen from the same plant every day. They roam and collect from whatever is in bloom at the time. So if you want to have a sticker to promote self grandiosity, then every single bottle of honey would have to be tested. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-92177893964631364312016-01-25T18:28:38.587-10:002016-01-25T18:28:38.587-10:00Will post soon...jimmy is not the enemy....Will post soon...jimmy is not the enemy....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049018656616613445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-66215565823467546062016-01-24T19:37:43.561-10:002016-01-24T19:37:43.561-10:00As a real beekeeper or apiculturist I would like t...As a real beekeeper or apiculturist I would like to thank Joan for recognizing and exposing Mr. Trujillo as a self promoting opportunist. I believe the real story herein is that he has seized upon another instance to build his reputation as the beekeeping authority on Kauai. Over these past few years there have been numerous TGI articles featuring Trujillo as the man who is saving Kauai's bees or the bee whisperer and such. Never once has he credited the long time beekeeping community here, who in fact have for many years been managing their colonies responsibly without the use of chemicals or antibiotics in the bee hives. I am concerned that KCC and KBEE are encouraging a new era of beekeepers, young and old alike, who are not receiving proper instruction and education. These entities have received numerous grants and funding worth tens of thousands of dollars without any oversite or accountability. Now Mr Trujillo is positioning himself to receive public funding for commercial queen rearing which he has no expertise with at all. The county and state officials have been sold on this because they genuinely want to help the honeybees but aren't aware of the true story with KBEE, Trujillo, and now KCC( whom will be held liable also).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-89362312926419874312016-01-24T15:24:23.671-10:002016-01-24T15:24:23.671-10:00"Though Berg suggested those who tested clean..."Though Berg suggested those who tested clean could use a “glyphosate free sticker” "<br />How will this work Dr Berg, Jimmy Trujillo?<br />Should each frame from each colony have a sample sent in for sampling every harvest?<br />Who will dispense and SELL the stickers?<br />KBEE and the self aggrandizing , no beekeeping real world experience, public funded anti gmo activist Jimmy Trujillo?<br /><br />Using a high school student to put forth a study you would not sign your name to, as anti gmo propaganda?<br /><br />You and Mr Heacock have expended your credibility by joining the forces of the occult, anti-science anti gmo movement.<br />Who is to say that the glycophosphate sample comes from a seed company field or an aunty using a bottle bought from any store on Kauai to extinguish a dandelion growing through a crack in her driveway that a bee happens to land on? <br />You (Jimmy and Carl) have done a hatchet job on all honey produced on Kauai with alarmist BS.<br />How about a (PARTS PER MILLION) test on the carcinogenic elements present whenever we pump our gas or drive our cars,<br />The elitist aesthetic of zero chemical presence is a farce.<br />Good job with your activist anti gmo bs to smear local beekeepers that don't feed at the public trough. or soak up public dollars.<br />Good luck selling your stickers<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-75941392008156025192016-01-24T07:33:33.610-10:002016-01-24T07:33:33.610-10:00No, it happened. I actually did see the photo on t...No, it happened. I actually did see the photo on the phones of two Pioneer workers. But the workers were afraid of being harassed by anti-GMO activists, so they did not want to go public. That's why no police report or citation. Anti-GMO intimidation at its finest!Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-57576089057501446102016-01-24T07:24:08.517-10:002016-01-24T07:24:08.517-10:00What ever happened to the picture of Hooser "...What ever happened to the picture of Hooser "standing in the fields" that you claim to have seen Joan? Remember when you loudly proclaimed "hooser busted for trespassing"? Why was there never any evidence of this presented? No picture, no police report, no citation and no witnesses (except your anonymous "sources". Why? Cause it didn't happen. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-7941491522852778872016-01-24T06:42:01.439-10:002016-01-24T06:42:01.439-10:00Just don't trespass in their fields like Hoose...Just don't trespass in their fields like Hooser and you'll be ok.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-59326031813346021212016-01-24T05:59:51.818-10:002016-01-24T05:59:51.818-10:00From the Garden Island this morning-
"What&#...<br />From the Garden Island this morning-<br /><br />"What's all the fuss about! These chemicals are harmless." Sure, they are. Wake Up People! Read on...<br /> <br /><br />syngenta 10 Syngenta workers taken to hospital<br /><br />Company reviewing procedures after employees enter field too soon<br /><br /> <br /><br />syngenta<br /><br />Posted: Sunday, January 24, 2016 2:00 am<br /><br />Bill Buley - The Garden Island | 0 comments<br /><br />KEKAHA — Ten Syngenta employees were taken to Kauai Veterans Memorial Hospital on Wednesday after walking onto a field too soon after it had been sprayed with an agricultural pesticide.<br /><br />Seven employees were released later that day, while three remained overnight. Six have returned to work and the rest have been cleared to return to work Monday.<br /><br />Joshua Uyehara, Syngenta Hawaii’s site manager, said there is a 24-hour waiting period before employees enter a field where chlorpyrifos has been applied. It had been about 20 hours when several walked onto the field Wednesday morning to plant some identification tags.<br /><br />“Unfortunately, some of the workers strayed into a field they were not scheduled to work and they were not supposed to be there,” Uyehara said in a phone interview.<br /><br />A field supervisor noticed they were there within a few minutes — perhaps 10 or 15 — and the employees were quickly told to leave the area.<br /><br />Uyehara said Syngenta’s priority was to get the individuals out of the restricted field. They were cleaned up as quickly as possible, offered medical assistance and transported to the hospital in private vehicles.<br /><br />He said due to privacy laws, he couldn’t describe any symptoms employees may have shown.<br /><br />Uyehara there were about 30 workers in the vicinity of the restricted corn field Wednesday morning, but not necessarily in the field, before the 24-hour restriction had expired.<br /><br />Syngenta officials met early Thursday to begin reviewing their procedures and policies to be sure the work environment is safe. Steps will be taken each morning to be sure training procedures are explained, monitored and followed.<br /><br />“The company takes safety very seriously,” Uyehara said.<br /><br />Syngenta has about 100 full-time employees.<br /><br />External investigations are also underway.<br /><br />Uyehara said a Hawaii Department of Agriculture inspector, who was on the property Wednesday morning, was notified and taken to the site of the incident within about 10 minutes of when it happened.<br /><br />“It’s not possible for it to happen faster than that,” he said.<br /><br />He emphasized Syngenta’s first priority was to ensure the safety of its colleagues.<br /><br />“Everything is under review,” he said.<br /><br />The Environment Protection Agency is considering a total ban on the use of chlorpyrifos. A comment period ended earlier this month.<br /><br />Earthjustice, in its Jan. 5 comments on the proposal, wrote: “Chlorpyrifos is a widely used, dangerous pesticide that causes poisonings of workers and bystanders every year and is associated with alarming neurodevelopmental impairments to children exposed during early life stages.”<br /><br />It wrote that EPA “should also move quickly to cancel all chlorpyrifos uses — even non-food uses — based on the risks posed to workers and bystanders and the serious extent and nature of those risks.”<br /><br />Uyehara, in an interview with Civil Beat, said the company doesn’t have any plans to discontinue its use of chlorpyrifos.<br /><br />“As far as we’re concerned, it’s still registered as safe as long as it’s used in accordance with the label,” he told Civil Beat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-31104255804793155602016-01-23T20:38:51.314-10:002016-01-23T20:38:51.314-10:00http://www.ahamoku.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/...http://www.ahamoku.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/M7KauaiRasterFile-1.png<br /><br />Aha Moku map Kupua and Kapena are on the west sideAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45382387217118172422016-01-23T18:23:39.277-10:002016-01-23T18:23:39.277-10:00I don't fault the student. The teacher gave ba...I don't fault the student. The teacher gave bad guidance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-22882406155990868692016-01-23T12:49:17.601-10:002016-01-23T12:49:17.601-10:00Don't know of a single hive on Kapena Street. ...Don't know of a single hive on Kapena Street. I think TGI meant Keapana.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58966189541182320482016-01-23T11:51:26.357-10:002016-01-23T11:51:26.357-10:00When lawyers become true believers for their clien...When lawyers become true believers for their clients, no one believes them anymore. Same goes in the GMO context. <br />Disregard the people who have the same position every time and listen to the ones who are less sure of their positions and you may get closer to the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com