tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post6588162276093926210..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: What Next?Joan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-11114775611491072092014-09-05T07:15:38.336-10:002014-09-05T07:15:38.336-10:00Given the choice, the soil and lands in Kilauea, K...Given the choice, the soil and lands in Kilauea, Kapaa, Kealia are all far better to farm than the red dry clay on the west side.But most of the lands there either operate as resorts(over 40 fake farms were permitted to be resort in the farming community(no more) of Kilauea, and the vacant lands that were agriculture have been divided up for sale to gazillionaires or in "holding" to do so later. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-16243930051901605552014-09-03T11:51:13.652-10:002014-09-03T11:51:13.652-10:0010:39 sounds like someone who actually knows what ...10:39 sounds like someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about--as compared to the 'lil wannabes who just talk the talk, talk, talk, talk, talk . . . . Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-21234428113095115992014-09-03T10:39:53.139-10:002014-09-03T10:39:53.139-10:00The land along the Mana plain from Kekaha to Polih...The land along the Mana plain from Kekaha to Polihale has high salinity, a brackish water table close to the surface, high pH, and high sand content, causing fast drainage so that soluble nutrients (including those provided by organic matter) wash out easily.<br /><br />The weeds there harbor plant pests, the multitude of introduced birds (chickens, pigeons, etc.) attack seeds and plants, and there's often high wind across the plain, which stresses young plants.<br /><br />The water available for irrigation there is also alkaline and hard, and irrigation is necessary because the plain is in the rain-shadow of the mountains most of the year, due to prevailing wind patterns.<br /><br />Day temperatures in the Mana area average about 10 degrees hotter than the Kapaa area in the summer, with little or no cloud cover against the sun's rays.<br /><br />Mana is a very challenging area to farm for all these reasons. I've never seen it listed as highly fertile by any measure, including historic measurements. The one thing it has going for it is that it is mostly flat. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-60358710334431334082014-09-03T09:28:27.810-10:002014-09-03T09:28:27.810-10:00This whole anti-GMO issue reminds me of that argum...This whole anti-GMO issue reminds me of that argument that vaccinating kids was linked to autism. Remember that one? The one where a whole bunch of high-profile celebrities jumped on the bandwagon? The one that everyone was SO SURE was accurate because a doctor published a study on it. The one that caused rifts and divides among friends and colleagues. The same argument that was found to be FALSE when Dr. Andrew Wakefield's research was deemed fraudulent. <br />My point is, if someone thinks vaccines are bad, fine. That's their opinion and they are entitled to it. But like with this GMO issue, people who are against it need to STOP trying to shove their beliefs and opinions down other peoples' throats! We are all free to make our own choices, and to believe in what we choose to believe. People need to STOP making others feel bad and cutting them down for NOT agreeing with their point of view. It's so ridiculous what things have come to. Believe it or not, there are ways to politely disagree with someone, which often leads to intelligent, productive discussions and resolutions. Unfortunately, I've seen nothing but fist-waving, yelling, name-calling, and judgment. Many people I've spoken to about this share the same sentiment, one which may prove detrimental to any kind of positive changes that might have come about: "I'm over it." <br />Yeah, I know the feeling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-22651412234176276622014-09-03T09:24:03.840-10:002014-09-03T09:24:03.840-10:006:41. Yes it was much better when it was growing s...6:41. Yes it was much better when it was growing sugar for export. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-87167991224825602752014-09-03T08:46:38.225-10:002014-09-03T08:46:38.225-10:00Yea, cheap talk - go try grow, den.Yea, cheap talk - go try grow, den.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-8924850223932349482014-09-03T06:41:54.695-10:002014-09-03T06:41:54.695-10:00Land all along the Mana plain from Kekaha to Polih...Land all along the Mana plain from Kekaha to Polihale is some of the most fertile ag land in the state. Or at least it was before Syngenta. Too bad it's not being used to grow food for local markets in Hawaii.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-59868889232758345262014-09-03T00:47:03.010-10:002014-09-03T00:47:03.010-10:00Ed, isn't it exhausting being so pedantic?Ed, isn't it exhausting being so pedantic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-73046757856617123662014-09-02T20:46:49.401-10:002014-09-02T20:46:49.401-10:00Anonymous September 2, 2014 at 12:34 PM said - &qu...Anonymous September 2, 2014 at 12:34 PM said - "@edward coll. the thing is only the extreme fringe, like yourself, see gmo's as being an issue comparable to slavery and civil rights."<br /><br />I never said that the "issues" were "comparable to slavery and civil rights". I said anti-GMO activists are trying to make something illegal in response to Joan's comment "I think it's also worth noting that the dynamics are different when you're trying to legalize something (marijuana, equal rights), as opposed to outlaw something (GMOs, pesticides, etc.)". I could have used alcohol prohibition advocates trying to make the sale and transport of alcohol illegal, or anti-tobacco advocates trying to make sale and use of tobacco illegal. Any comparison other than in the specific dimension (of advocates trying to make something legal or illegal) has been made by anon 12:34 in an attempt to define me as on the "extreme fringe" although the extreme fringe of what is unclear. I was not speaking to the merits of any of these "issues" beyond the specific context of Joan's comments. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-55036374192611375722014-09-02T20:05:21.046-10:002014-09-02T20:05:21.046-10:00I don't understand the land use argument - on ...I don't understand the land use argument - on the inability to find pasture land or idea that the seed companies are keeping the islands from growing our own food.<br /><br />The seed companies utilize ~25,000 acres (not all of which is farmable) out of the 1 million acres of prime farm land on the islands. That's less than 3%. Much of the state's farmland is laying fallow because there is no one to farm it or they don't want to do the hard work, lack of knowledge, startup cost and or the fact that they can't compete with production off-island. Stop blaming the seed companies for this.<br /><br />Also, if you think other farmers (even organic) won't/don't use the same pesticides, you are kidding yourself or don't know enough about agriculture to be part of the debate.<br /><br />The idea of affordable locally grown food without the use of pesticides is an utopia. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-25121802845985109992014-09-02T18:43:52.131-10:002014-09-02T18:43:52.131-10:00Anonymous at September 1, 2014 at 11:18 AM says, &...Anonymous at September 1, 2014 at 11:18 AM says, "When that extremely generous tax break was granted was granted, the open air testing of GMO seed plants for their limitations to poison exposure was not ever imagined."<br /><br />Here is a perfect example of anti-GMO activism constructing an argument based entirely on false information. There is no "open air testing of GMO seed plants" to see how much pesticide they can tolerate. This simply does not happen and never has. <br /><br />GE plants are grown to see if they carry certain traits. Just like any crop, these plants have to be protected from insects, diseases and competition from weeds. The pesticides used are the same ones used by conventional farmers and follow the same application procedures, including the quantity and strength of the mixture. <br /><br />The problem is statements like the one quoted above continue to be made, no matter how many times they are debunked. Knowingly making false claims is the type of intellectual dishonesty that only one side in this debate practices, and it is encouraged by well-funded activist groups like CFS and PAN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-43338668062406169002014-09-02T18:25:51.410-10:002014-09-02T18:25:51.410-10:00A couple of quotes from this post struck me as exa...A couple of quotes from this post struck me as examples of false equivalency, although I found most of piece sympathetic to farmers.<br /><br />1. ". . . to not let extremists from either side control the conversation"<br />2. We really don't need any more propaganda/PR, whether it's by Monsanto, Hawaii SEED, the Babes, or Hawaii Farm Bureau.<br /><br />Where are the extremists on pro-modern ag side? Where is the misinformation? It seems they have been fairly scrupulous in ensuring the accuracy of their statements, unlike the anti-biotech activists, who have issued numerous demonstrably false claims, especially about pesticides, when all recent studies and tests of air, groundwater and streams indicate precisely the opposite. <br /><br />Why the knee-jerk obligation to say both sides are equally guilty, when all the evidence says otherwise? If Monsanto or another biotech company says their crops are not harmful for human or animal consumption and that they apply pesticides judiciously and safely, where's the data to show they don't?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-55274628400480077852014-09-02T12:34:12.509-10:002014-09-02T12:34:12.509-10:00@edward coll. the thing is only the extreme fringe...@edward coll. the thing is only the extreme fringe, like yourself, see gmo's as being an issue comparable to slavery and civil rights. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-70217407280824489702014-09-02T12:10:33.299-10:002014-09-02T12:10:33.299-10:00Joan said - "I think it's also worth noti...Joan said - "I think it's also worth noting that the dynamics are different when you're trying to legalize something (marijuana, equal rights), as opposed to outlaw something (GMOs, pesticides, etc.)"<br /><br />It is also worth noting the abolitionists were trying to outlaw slavery and often broke the law to do so, Civil rights activists tried to outlaw discrimination and often broke the law to do so. I am not convinced the differences in dynamics between legalizing something and outlawing something is relevant when it comes to opposing federal law through local resistance as opposed to working through the system at the federal level. In the 1960 sit-ins at segregated lunch counters appeared effective to me. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-79526710213255224262014-09-02T10:58:58.359-10:002014-09-02T10:58:58.359-10:00Organization and resistance at the local level how...<i>Organization and resistance at the local level however has and can be more or as effective as working within the system. </i><br /><br />We are very much in agreement there, Ed. <br /><br />I think it's also worth noting that the dynamics are different when you're trying to legalize something (marijuana, equal rights), as opposed to outlaw something (GMOs, pesticides, etc.)Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-91748457111377404132014-09-02T10:37:57.773-10:002014-09-02T10:37:57.773-10:00Joan 10:03 said "People are always free to ig...Joan 10:03 said "People are always free to ignore political realities and bang their heads against the wall. I'm just trying to offer suggestions for effective use of time and money."<br /><br />Joan, political sentiment can change very fast, sometimes overnight. The marijuana issue was fought for years at the federal level without success so I am not sure if your suggestions would be effective use of time nor money, but I do agree with you that to date the anti-GMO effort has been a complete fiasco. Organization and resistance at the local level however has and can be more or as effective as working within the system. Regardless of the "law" they can't arrest everyone. The civil rights and the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa are examples of local action forcing reforms at the federal level. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-1796855948269740892014-09-02T10:03:35.730-10:002014-09-02T10:03:35.730-10:00Yes, Ed, it did. But we both know the feds still h...Yes, Ed, it did. But we both know the feds still have the power to enforce, which they have exercised indiscriminately. And those laws were passed in states where both public and political sentiment was on their side, which is not the case here, especially since we now have a legal precedent for pre-emption. People are always free to ignore political realities and bang their heads against the wall. I'm just trying to offer suggestions for effective use of time and money. Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-36287054215270345462014-09-02T09:55:00.520-10:002014-09-02T09:55:00.520-10:009:30 said "If you are convinced GMOs or certa...9:30 said "If you are convinced GMOs or certain pesticides are bad, there is only one way to get them out. Get a Ph.D. in the subject, do a legitimate formal study proving your hypothesis that survives peer review and that gets published in a scientific journal that people take seriously."<br /><br />One need not have a Ph.D to do peer reviewed research, one need only follow proper scientific method and protocols which can be duplicated by others. Also these studies can be very expensive to carry out. Corporations often have the money to fund research but they can selectively fund what they choose. These corporations need not submit the funded study to peer review if the results are not to their liking. This creates a flaw at the base of science which is "free inquiry". If you are told what and where to look, what to study and have the ability to suppress (by keeping it secret) the results if they negatively impact corporate profits it is a huge problem for science.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-34991547673631815072014-09-02T09:34:48.107-10:002014-09-02T09:34:48.107-10:00Joan said - "Ed -- I'm not saying that...Joan said - "Ed -- I'm not saying that's a "winning strategy," only that it's the reality, in terms of the branch of government with the authority to address the issue."<br /><br />Joan, and what branch of government has the authority to classify marijuana as a schedule one drug making possession of Marijuana illegal? I believe it is the federal government and yet several states, including Hawaii, allow medical marijuana and two states Colorado and Washington now have legal adult use marijuana as well. Did not all this occur due to grassroots efforts across the country? A grassroots effort that basically ignored laws at the federal level?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-41124959744203789132014-09-02T09:30:48.029-10:002014-09-02T09:30:48.029-10:00"It's my personal conviction that 'x&..."It's my personal conviction that 'x' is bad because, well, no scientific evidence, I just sure I'm right," will never work as a justification for banning something -- especially something profitable -- in the U.S.<br /><br />The only way the pesticide/GMO situation will change is if there is high quality solid science that says it needs to, and even then federal and state agencies would be slow to move.<br /><br />The reason for the status quo is that there is currently no academically accepted solid science saying that it should be otherwise.<br /><br />When scientists say that global warming is a problem, everyone wants to stand behind them. When big oil fights back we say, oh, why won't you listen to the scientists that know what they are talking about? And when the fringe 1% says, oh no, warming is not an issue, we don't give that much weight.<br /><br />So when the majority mainstream scientists stand up and say GMOs are a good thing, why are we so quick to believe the less educated naysayers or the fringe 1% playing chicken little?<br /><br />If you are convinced GMOs or certain pesticides are bad, there is only one way to get them out. Get a Ph.D. in the subject, do a legitimate formal study proving your hypothesis that survives peer review and that gets published in a scientific journal that people take seriously.<br /><br />Otherwise you are just wasting your breath and everyone else's time and money.<br /><br />Pseudo studies that cannot survive peer review and that are published on activist websites might as well be printed on toilet paper, because that's about all they're good for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61047332286362992012014-09-02T07:26:07.538-10:002014-09-02T07:26:07.538-10:00Time out, detention after school for all of you......Time out, detention after school for all of you...actin like babies the whole bunchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-13635793311919840562014-09-02T07:24:38.523-10:002014-09-02T07:24:38.523-10:00Heard Gary barged in the farm Fair without paying....Heard Gary barged in the farm Fair without paying. Wifey paid for herself only, Gary used his good look to get in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-81111030544534998372014-09-02T07:15:11.163-10:002014-09-02T07:15:11.163-10:001:49 and 4:06 -- You are the one full of baloney. ...1:49 and 4:06 -- You are the one full of baloney. KFB does not discriminate. Dustin and Felicia had booths because they reserved and paid for them on time. Tim was given a booth for a night because there was an issue as to whether he had reserved one or not but Gary was too cheap to pay for one although he showed up to work the crowd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-39692136354707721222014-09-01T22:54:43.322-10:002014-09-01T22:54:43.322-10:00They were being facetious.They were being facetious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-58554700261006872572014-09-01T20:30:37.413-10:002014-09-01T20:30:37.413-10:005:05 go fuck yourself. Fucking worm.5:05 go fuck yourself. Fucking worm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com