tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post6618165174950922344..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Musings: Go FiggerJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-31080395691108620822008-03-26T10:14:00.000-10:002008-03-26T10:14:00.000-10:00An interesting discussion has taken place in the c...An interesting discussion has taken place in the comments of <A HREF="http://planetkauai.blogspot.com/2008/03/council-member-yukimura-knows-future-of.html" REL="nofollow">the blog post in controversy</A> about whether and what incentives might be preferable to a blunt force mandate, the costs of which necessarily fall hardest on those least able to afford it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-46812091414064524392008-03-26T09:05:00.000-10:002008-03-26T09:05:00.000-10:00Oh come on, McCleod, let's move beyond such simpli...Oh come on, McCleod, let's move beyond such simplistic, knee jerk reactions. One, I am generally not in favor of compulsory anything. And two, the state and county impose things on us all the time, like septic tanks over cesspools, speed limits on roads, etc., because such things are deemed in the best interest of public safety and the environment. <BR/><BR/>My whole point was we should at least consider the idea of requiring solar hot water rather than dismissing it because it's "mandated" or proposed by a politician who Charley thinks is engaged in "amateur commodity prognosticating."Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-47768364164206223642008-03-26T08:13:00.000-10:002008-03-26T08:13:00.000-10:00Perhaps I can summarize:Conrow: Use compulsion to ...Perhaps I can summarize:<BR/><BR/>Conrow: Use compulsion to force others to live or spend in ways they would not do voluntarily. This attitude presumes that those "who know best" (i.e. Conrow et. al.) should have the full power of the state at their disposal to force all of us to live as they see fit. <BR/>The short of it: Solar good>everybody must have solar no matter what.<BR/><BR/>Foster: Some force may be legitimate; but in general is not.<BR/><BR/>Hmmm...I wonder which scenario any thinking, individual would prefer, compulsion or free choice?MacCleodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16764347619825201506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-15408211896062972262008-03-25T12:02:00.000-10:002008-03-25T12:02:00.000-10:00What I dismissed out of hand was that we should ma...What I dismissed out of hand was that we should mandate a regulation based on amateur commodity prognisticating. And I reject your assertion that that is not a fair point or is somehow "ridiculous" (although, obviously, you're entitled to your opinion).<BR/><BR/>The reason we adopt regulations is very important - at least in my opinion. In the first place, the reason given for a regulation is critical in evaluating whether a reg is even required, and whether a particular reg is the best way to address the percieved problem. Maybe there are better ways than a mandate? Maybe an incentive scheme, for instance. Who knows? Not me. It's something I'd like to see discussed in the context of a valid problem, though, and not JoAnn's overconfidence in her commodity analysis skills. <BR/><BR/>Adopting regs based on bogus reasons, and then justifying them post hoc by pointing at some other reasons the reg might also be a good idea is an unacceptably haphazard way of imposing laws on the community. First we identify a problem, then we discuss ways of addressing it. We don't take a law founded on some politician's assumptions about the future (Not without at least conducting some sort of evidenciary hearings to determine whether the balance of expert authority even agrees with the assumption) and then tack on some real world reasons that render it maybe not such a bad idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-3995371990665780812008-03-25T11:30:00.000-10:002008-03-25T11:30:00.000-10:00Charley, since you apparently had trouble comprehe...Charley, since you apparently had trouble comprehending what I wrote, let me rephrase it. You wrote, "If the imposition of solar mitigates a drain on the present infrastructure, then I think that is probably a proper use of the state's (and its subdivisions') police powers to regulate." I asked, then why not look at the merits of the proposal itself rather than dismiss it out of hand simply because you disagree with the reasons one person gave for implementing it? Doesn't that strike you as even a tiny bit closed-minded and reactionary?Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-18732445213898860722008-03-25T11:01:00.000-10:002008-03-25T11:01:00.000-10:00But I said exactly what I meant. It's a reading co...But I said exactly what I meant. It's a reading comprehension problem that causes one to always add a bunch of junk that isn't there. <BR/><BR/>Why did I write what I think about it instead of what you think about it? Gosh, I don't know Joan. <BR/><BR/>There are good reasons for regulations, and there are bad reasons for regulations. I won't complain about valid regulations based on valid reasons. I will comment on and cricize regulations based on invalid reasons. It's just the way I am.<BR/><BR/>Why JoAnn's prognostications about future commodity prices is not a valid reason - if not obvious - requires some fleshing out that I'll give it sometime in the next few days over at my place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-24884995253904910872008-03-25T10:43:00.000-10:002008-03-25T10:43:00.000-10:00Of course I missed your point Charley. Don't we al...Of course I missed your point Charley. Don't we always, because what you say is never what you mean? <BR/><BR/>And you missed my point, which is that your position and "reasoning" are ridiculous. We live in a society where decisions are made all the time on someone's predictions of what may or may not happen, like wars that are waged on someone's belief that another nation's ruler has weapons of mass destruction.<BR/><BR/>Regardless of the rationale JoAnn gave, why not look at whether the proposal itself has merit?<BR/><BR/>As for Andy, yes, the secrecy was never this bad before, which makes one wonder what they've got to hide.<BR/><BR/>And Anonymous, you've mentioned total destruction before. When it comes to the political system here and elsewhere, I have to agree we really would be best served by scrapping it completely and starting over.Joan Conrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-40538498701221480632008-03-25T10:22:00.000-10:002008-03-25T10:22:00.000-10:00yes, it is hard to 'figger' out. cronyism, like de...yes, it is hard to 'figger' out. cronyism, like derick k's board endorsement of the KIUC incumbents and marc hubbard's (un)ethics support for jonathan chun's questionable role as paid rep and legal counsel to realtors and his potentially conflicting volunteer role as charter review chair, is alive and well on our little island in paradise.<BR/>how do we move beyond the corruption and dysfunctional policies of the political system? is total distruction the only solution? no one can stop us now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-76814509614880460802008-03-25T10:17:00.000-10:002008-03-25T10:17:00.000-10:00Ah, but you've missed my point. As I state in the ...Ah, but you've missed my point. As I state in the comments, there might be perfectly legitimate reasons to mandate solar water heaters - the postponement of some necessary future investment might well be one such legitimate reason - but JoAnn's and others' junior commodity analyst speculations about where they think the prices of energy are going is not a legitimate reason. <BR/><BR/>If the imposition of solar mitigates a drain on the present infrastructure, then I think that is probably a proper use of the state's (and its subdivisions') police powers to regulate. But that's not the reason JoAnn gave. Instead, she asks us all to form policy based on her amateur prediction of commodity prices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-35557412398200099082008-03-25T10:09:00.000-10:002008-03-25T10:09:00.000-10:00Doesn't Shiraishi do business with and for the cou...Doesn't Shiraishi do business with and for the county too?<BR/><BR/>When Louis Abrams was just putting together the last Charter Commission he asked me what I thought the most important possible amendment might be. I said redefining the County Attorney provisions to include a public-serving component and make the position elected. <BR/><BR/>At the time it wasn't as clear why because it never happened until CA Lani Nakazawa conspired first with Kaipo Asing and then with JoAnn Yukimura to hide their public policy deliberations and the County Attorney opinions that enable them. <BR/><BR/>I also spoke to Mike Belles- who was also on the Charter Commission (although he commonly appeared before the Council by the way) at the same time and he said when he was County Attorney he never dreamed of withholding public policy opinions from the public. <BR/><BR/>Even under Kusaka, Hartwell Blake would make copies for the public when he gave written opinions to the Council. I battled with him and the OIP for two years to get them to list executive session matters individually and specifically on the agenda until he finally had to give in and so Council Chair at the time Ron Kouchi instituted the numbering and exposition of individual executive session matters. <BR/><BR/>Actually the wording of the Charter for the CA doesn’t address the matter of the public vs. internal functions of the office but the Sunshine Laws should apply, especially the “public policy” should be conducted “as openly as possible” provisions.Andy Parxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398587036690312685noreply@blogger.com