tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post7461878658335722829..comments2023-10-17T04:51:08.765-10:00Comments on KauaiEclectic: Stand-Off Ends in Stand Down at NaueJoan Conrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00172330100788007499noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-34453727524649391812008-08-31T16:45:00.000-10:002008-08-31T16:45:00.000-10:00It's not just a bunch of troublemakers who support...It's not just a bunch of troublemakers who support Hawaiians and their burial grounds. Anyone who has respect for their culture, stands with them, or should.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-38609517347112812492008-08-10T17:51:00.000-10:002008-08-10T17:51:00.000-10:00"What are you doing out there?"OK...Andy, Katy, et..."What are you doing out there?"<BR/><BR/>OK...Andy, Katy, et al: point us to where we can read about your arrest records for the civil disobedience you so strongly avow.<BR/><BR/>Or are you safely back, seeing it, writing about it, but not taking it on the chin for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-5136038399418263232008-08-10T16:42:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:42:00.000-10:00The law balances individual rights with community ...The law balances individual rights with community rights. It is not inherantly individualistic, but does protect individual rights when not in legal conflict with community rights.<BR/><BR/>All else is "delicate sensibilities" or "taste".<BR/><BR/>And as we all know, there's no accounting for taste.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-77781869982774478922008-08-10T16:39:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:39:00.000-10:00How about a case in Hawaiian Ocean View Estates (H...How about a case in Hawaiian Ocean View Estates (HOVE) on the BI.<BR/><BR/>A nice new home gets a new neighbor who "develope" his land with a $600 shack, 10 cars, 1 of which works, 8 barking dogs, 20 chickens and loud music 20 hrs/day?<BR/><BR/>Did this affect your property value? Is this "local" lifestyle an affront to your (or most people's) sensibilities?<BR/><BR/>Who's right and wrong here? What would you do if you had that nice house?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-19115080358742202922008-08-10T16:35:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:35:00.000-10:00So, Katy, what would you suggest the course of act...So, Katy, what would you suggest the course of action should be if your neighbor has the 15 foot "Big Kanuna's Playhouse" on the side of his garage facing your picture window?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-54100631561924110282008-08-10T16:32:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:32:00.000-10:00Sure...run away when you can't win.LAW - 1"delicat...Sure...run away when you can't win.<BR/><BR/>LAW - 1<BR/>"delicate sensibilities" - 0<BR/>"sensitivity" - 0<BR/><BR/>"ability to change the laws of the land to support your position" - 0<BR/><BR/>Happiness of those obaying the law - 1<BR/><BR/>Unhappiness of those too-sensitive people in this, the real world - 0<BR/><BR/>If you can't win your case in a court of law, it's not worth fighting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-35116638428884198102008-08-10T16:23:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:23:00.000-10:00Well, the last four comments reveal the sensibilit...Well, the last four comments reveal the sensibilities of people who only think in totally individualistic terms. That doesn't interest me in any way so I guess I've said what I need to say about this for now.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-45892783199660024602008-08-10T16:10:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:10:00.000-10:00I've read lots of Thoreau and never liked him anyw...I've read lots of Thoreau and never liked him anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-3732130453563144012008-08-10T16:09:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:09:00.000-10:00"What am I doing out there?"Because I'm not stupid..."What am I doing out there?"<BR/><BR/>Because I'm not stupid enough to get arrested (with all the consequential damage that causes in one's life) for a bunch of ancient old bones not even in my family line!<BR/><BR/>Idiotic!<BR/><BR/>I will not fight for an unproven idea of "justice" when such actions violate known clear laws.<BR/><BR/>Like Katy says, I gotta be me...and out of jail! And collecting $200.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-89394863624908393602008-08-10T16:05:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:05:00.000-10:00I disagree, Katy. No one is harmed, beyond their ...I disagree, Katy. No one is harmed, beyond their "delicate sensibilities" which don't count.<BR/><BR/>"Harm" is a legal term and its definition is the only one I'd abide with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-26658496108095424772008-08-10T16:03:00.000-10:002008-08-10T16:03:00.000-10:00What if my neighbor decides to paint "The Big Kahu...What if my neighbor decides to paint "The Big Kahuna's Playground" in huge letters on the side of his garage? Or "Haole Haven"? Or any other possibly offensive phrase you can think of that falls within his rights to paint.<BR/><BR/>Does it damage me personally? No since my name isn't defamed in any way. Do I strongly object and get physically ill every time I see it, something that cannot be avoided? Sure! It offends my culture and all I hold dear.<BR/><BR/>My recourse? Politely talk to my neighbor about it. If he chooses to ignore me then I've expended all I should do. No protests, no vigils, no signs, etc.<BR/>Maybe a call to the planning/zoning dept to see if I have any recourse there. If not, grow a hedge...put up a fence...move.<BR/><BR/>Game over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-12051405891976583612008-08-10T15:58:00.000-10:002008-08-10T15:58:00.000-10:00That position has certain flaws.For example, if th...That position has certain flaws.<BR/><BR/>For example, if the person technically within the law is harming others, people of conscience have a legitimate reason to stop the person from causing that harm.<BR/><BR/>That is what civil disobedience is all about. <BR/><BR/>As Andy aptly points out in his post the other day,"Sorry to inform you but justice doesn’t come from laws. Laws are supposed to come from the concepts of justice."<BR/><BR/>He also included the wonderful anecdote about Thoreau in his statement:<BR/>"If defenders of Naue are arrested next time, inappropriate questions like 'what are you doing in jail' will be answered with the Thoreau retort of 'what are you doing out there?'"<BR/><BR/>Thank you, Andy.Katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09145011324294730195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-44272317980056669852008-08-10T15:04:00.000-10:002008-08-10T15:04:00.000-10:00I respect other's beliefs and will honor them in s...I respect other's beliefs and will honor them in situations where we are at odds as to what to do in a given situation and the law is on their side.<BR/><BR/>A person doing/not doing something contrary to his beliefs when the law is on his side is strictly up to that person. His decision should not be challenged once it's made. It's over.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I would expect them to do the same. Bresca has his belief and the law supports him, so back off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-77587222661229478412008-08-10T15:00:00.000-10:002008-08-10T15:00:00.000-10:00Rosa Parks sat in a front seat. She did not lay d...Rosa Parks sat in a front seat. She did not lay down in front of the bus, sabotage the bus or demand a front seat occupant to vacate for her.<BR/><BR/>That was OK in my opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-6573679654164244332008-08-10T14:58:00.000-10:002008-08-10T14:58:00.000-10:00Choose to disobey a law if it is an affront to you...Choose to disobey a law if it is an affront to your personal moral code, "go limp" so to speak, and accept the consequences. But DO NOT in any way attempt to actively or passively inhibit anyone else who chooses to follow that law.<BR/><BR/>That's what I believe in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-29848387401272005862008-08-10T14:55:00.000-10:002008-08-10T14:55:00.000-10:00yup, I would have...and made a deal for land and t...yup, I would have...and made a deal for land and titles...then then scooted over to London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-61289074126380261152008-08-10T10:42:00.000-10:002008-08-10T10:42:00.000-10:00anon at 7:13 would have been ratting out the revol...anon at 7:13 would have been ratting out the revolutionaries to the British.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-11239154490171872212008-08-10T09:12:00.000-10:002008-08-10T09:12:00.000-10:00what about moral laws? do you consider yourself t...what about moral laws? do you consider yourself the Rosa Parks of human moral codes of respect for others' beliefs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-20781717457156479532008-08-10T07:13:00.000-10:002008-08-10T07:13:00.000-10:00My attitude is calloused toward any who break the ...My attitude is calloused toward any who break the law, regardless of what they personally think of the law.<BR/><BR/>Such lawbreakers should be prosecuted to the full extent, and harassed the whole time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-33035334228022246182008-08-09T14:35:00.000-10:002008-08-09T14:35:00.000-10:00"voracity" is a good combo of voracious (as in vor..."voracity" is a good combo of voracious (as in voracious appettite for money) and veracity.<BR/>i have never seen any western culture disrespect their own in ways similar to Naue.<BR/>seems Purdy in poipu had the correct attitude and took pains to follow protocols with dignified respect that was due. has time and money calloused your attitude?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-46767910088225643092008-08-09T14:08:00.000-10:002008-08-09T14:08:00.000-10:00I don't care what anyone does with my physical rem...I don't care what anyone does with my physical remains after I'm dead. Nor do any of my friends.<BR/><BR/>Dead is dead and "remains" are not to be venerated in our belief.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to be creamated when my time comes and thrown into the ocean. Depending on the voracity of some of my closest friends, some of my ashes will be secretly placed on certain people's salt shakers, etc.....just for laughs!!<BR/><BR/>Eat Me!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-15165719214410649142008-08-09T14:02:00.000-10:002008-08-09T14:02:00.000-10:00I always respect the dominant culture in foreign l...I always respect the dominant culture in foreign lands I visit, even if I don't agree with it.<BR/><BR/>The thing is, Hawaii isn't a foreign land and the Hawaiian culture is not (no longer) the dominant culture.<BR/><BR/>I go with the flow, and the flow is with predominant western culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-34057018499224086432008-08-09T08:54:00.000-10:002008-08-09T08:54:00.000-10:00commendable indeed, agreed!but, anon 7:16a, are we...commendable indeed, agreed!<BR/>but, anon 7:16a, are we just teeny, teddy beerfarts in the wind?<BR/>maybe so in your culture, but why do you have no respect for others cultures who believe differently? or is a culture that did not have money (until it was introduced by forigners) not worth your respect?<BR/>will the prodigal son carry out your wishes of asphalt or acrylic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-31421523559731733082008-08-09T08:38:00.000-10:002008-08-09T08:38:00.000-10:00"Screw the dead"Kinky!"Screw the dead"<BR/><BR/>Kinky!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7875069982976812251.post-52919234777102289872008-08-09T07:16:00.000-10:002008-08-09T07:16:00.000-10:00Avoiding physical confrontation while still gettin...Avoiding physical confrontation while still getting the job done is commendable.<BR/><BR/>KPD is pursuing trespass arrest warrants for as many protesters as they can identify, and they did take pics. So many will get arrested after the fact...no public circus.<BR/><BR/>Bresca is pursuing his lawsuit against "squatters", which he will certainly win or settle in his favor.<BR/><BR/>I don't know where anon 8:08's ancestors are but mine are rotting in the ground somewhere and I'd be the first to OK paving them over. I used to have an acrilic toilet seat with some ashes of a particularly "loved" relative imbedded in it.<BR/><BR/>Screw the dead...they're worm meat. Hold them dear in your minds and mementos and pictures if you will. Build for the living.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com