Monday, May 11, 2009

Musings: Bearing Fruit

A ghost moon floated in a sea of gray when Koko and I went walking this morning. The air was thick and still, the way I imagine it must be in places like Georgia, with only the faintest whisper of a breeze.

We passed the place where a row of ti leaves had been shorn by a bull that escaped from its pasture in search of a treat, leaving a cow pie in return, and met up with my neighbor Andy, who wondered aloud at Koko’s subdued nature.

I explained she’d been a bit under the weather since Friday night, when we went to the beach to watch the moon rise orange out of the sea, and as I enjoyed the spectacle, she enjoyed chasing crabs in the moonlight. But later, she had to purge a belly full of coarse sand, and spent most of Saturday recuperating.

Fortunately, she’d recovered to the point where she happily accepted a dog biscuit from the cache that Andy carries in his pocket and then he mentioned he’d appreciated the "Gathering Rights" post I wrote last week about my friend Ili’s thwarted fishing trip — even though reading it made him feel sick to his stomach.

“It perfectly expressed everything that is going wrong here,” he said. “People who come over here and say they love the place and the people, and then try to make it into something different.”

Folks don’t seem to understand that if they treat locals with kindness, they’re apt to get the same in return, he said, and one of the most effective ways to protect your property is to enlist their cooperation, rather than alienate them.

Now, it was interesting that Andy brought up the subject, because in one of those strange little twists of fate, or “coincidences,” if you happen to believe in such things (and I don’t), I got an email yesterday from a woman who lives in San Francisco. She had contacted a travel agent out of the blue to reserve a North Shore vacation rental, and it turned out to be the very same man who had turned back Ili from the river.

He started telling her about the area and mentioned that a lot of Hawaiians engaged in subsistence practices and was talking enthusiastically about the Native Hawaiians who live there. She expressed concern about the clashes that had been occurring in the region over development and burial grounds, and he said that such confrontations were not the norm.

However, he said, he'd had one himself just the other day. And then he proceeded to tell her the story of his interaction with Ili. It seems that a guest in one of his vacation rentals had something stolen from the lanai and something of his had also gone missing and he’d seen a young man passing by there several times before, so when he saw Ili, he thought he was the culprit and the two had what he described as a rather heated confrontation.

After Ili walked away and the man went into the house, he felt he should have handled it with more aloha, so when he saw Ili pause on the Wainiha bridge, he yelled after him that he’d lived there for 30 years and that the land there was his kuleana, but Ili just put his head down and walked away.

Then later, the woman stumbled across my blog post and realized it recounted the very same confrontation. She then felt moved to contact me, thinking perhaps she could help to bridge the gap between the two, and we talked this morning.

She felt like the man believes he is respectful of the native culture, “but maybe he doesn’t get he’s not as much as he thinks he is. You wrote at the end of your blog that you hoped something positive would come from this, and it seems like this is an opportunity to make a connection between the two sides.”

And perhaps it is. Because I forwarded the post to a very cool blog — the Ka`ena Cultural Practice Project — and a woman named Summer emailed back that she had sent it on to the woman who runs a Peacemaking program for the Native Hawaiian Legal Corp. She also offered to get in touch with Ili and his friends to offer aid and guidance and then she gave me a great idea for a story.

Meanwhile, the Hanalei to Haena Community Association has offered its support and assistance in the matter. The issue is especially pertinent as the vacation rentals in the area are now all coming up for permits, and the Association wants to ensure that traditional fishing rights aren’t lost in the process of turning that culturally rich region into a resort.

Ili and his friends are also talking about forming a North Shore Kanaka Council to deal with access rights and other issues, so suddenly they’re feeling empowered and excited, rather than bitter and beaten down.

All of this highlights the value of working together and being willing to speak up and take action. It also underscores one of my favorite things about writing a blog: I just never know who is going to read it or where the message will go.

So as folks on Oahu turned to the Lege for support in working out the clash between hunters and hikers on that island’s trails, Kauai people are taking their own steps to resolve an ongoing access problem in their community.

It’s only a seed right now, but I feel confident it will bear sweet fruit.

50 comments:

Anonymous said...

so is boar hunting seen as on the same level as ethnic hawaiian "cultural" activities? i ask as i understood the pigs to have come from western ships (or where pigs brought over from polynesia?). thanks

Dawson said...

Joan, what an excellent turn of events.

Kudos to you and all who are part of this tapestry.

Anonymous said...

Does it matter where the pigs originally came from or the fact that Hawaiians have incorporated pig hunting as a subsistence?

I mean after all there isnʻt a whole lot left for Hawaiians is there ??? and I hear so much babble about somethingʻs origin as a methodology for denying something.

Same with chickens. If youʻre not from here and you donʻt agree with it, best to to just shut-up about it and when in Rome...(must admit, hard to teach that philosophy to americans)

Anonymous said...

"Does it matter where the pigs originally came from or the fact that Hawaiians have incorporated pig hunting as a subsistence?"

Yes, it does matter if Hawaiians have rights of traditional cultural practices to go onto land that is, like it or not, owned by others. It would make sense to limit them to truly traditional practices and not let them invent new practices to claim rights over other people's property. Like it or not, that's the compromise.

Anonymous said...

"It would make sense to limit them to truly traditional practices and not let them invent new practices to claim rights over other people's property."

Make sense to whom???? "They" are of this land and "we" have a lot to learn if we would just humble ourselves and listen.

The people of this land lived a life in balance, hunting, fishing and farming and having just enough without raping the land. That is what is truly traditional and why do you want to squeeze what is left from the life of the people?

Your post turns my stomach.

If the pigs come destroying your property, don't dare to call a kanaka for help. And if the barges cease to come, don't dare to ask "how" to find your next meal.

Anonymous said...

"Does it matter where the pigs originally came from or the fact that Hawaiians have incorporated pig hunting as a subsistence?"

-- if it is cited as a needed foodstuff, no. if it is cited as a centuries long historical cultural activity, yes (but hey, if some guy with 20% ethnic hawaiian blood tells me he is sure "hawaiians" effectively incorporated "X" into their "culture" over the past 100 years, cool, then it is such i guess)



"I mean after all there isnʻt a whole lot left for Hawaiians is there ???"

-- you for real on that one? opportunities for the ave ethnic hawaiian guy in 1700 vs 300 years later - not hard (pls bare with me on the seemingly contrarian tone of my comment; but i think you get my point, and i believe i understand yours)


"The people of this land [have yet to be fully incorporated into the best of america]" (along with what you said, for the most part)



"And if the barges cease to come, don't dare to ask "how" to find your next meal."

-- another example of the benefits of economic mobility: no need for an impromptu hunter-gatherer lifestyle


May 11, 2009 10:25 AM

Anonymous said...

on 2nd thought, id much rather you bear w/ me. my bad :)

Anonymous said...

"They" are of this land and "we" have a lot to learn if we would just humble ourselves and listen.

Anonymous said...

Uh, yeah. About that. "Their" culture also used to be cruelly stratified and "they" were abjectly superstitious to the point that they routinely practiced human sacrifice using as victims a class of "untouchable" outcasts from their own society as well as prisoners captured in war. "They" executed members of their own society for trifling offenses against the higher classes who lived entirely off the backs of what we would today call the "working poor." They warred on each other constantly and as a matter of practice murdered as many of the vanquished as they could run down, including noncombatant elderly, women, and children. So spare us the "We have much to learn from the Noble Savages" routine.

Katy Rose said...

By the same set of criteria used by Anon. 7:12, there would be very little of value to learn from Westerners.

We indiscriminately wiped out entire civilizations to make room for expansion. We enslaved people to provide free labor in order to build a capitalist empire. We even now imprison a higher percentage of our population than most, if not all, nations - largely for drug offenses, and we routinely execute ("sacrifice") people in the name of "justice." So much for our institutional respect for the working poor. We still bomb villages and kill civilians in the process of expanding our influence over the globe.

And yet we take it for granted that there are customs worth protecting and perpetuating in Western cultures.

I don't care for the romanticizing of any society, particularly not of its hierarchical systems, but why should Native Hawaiian culture be held to a higher standard of proving its worth than our own?

Don't we take it for granted that societies change and evolve? After all, consistent social struggle in the US has served as a civilizing influence on some of our more barbaric customs and practices. Isn't it possible that the same is true for Native Hawaiians?

Anonymous said...

Aloha,
First I'll start by saying that I am the Wainiha landowner who "met" Kaili Chandler. Next I will state that I have read this blog back to the beginning of the thread pertaining to this "meeting".
The statements in the blog concerning the details of the meeting as either actually stated to whomever has posted the comments on what took place are totally inaccurate and misleading.
As far as my actions and beliefs on the rights of indigenous people here in Kauai I heartily agree that those rights are valid if utilized according to the supreme court decision of the Hawaii Supreme court in the case vs Nansay Corp vs (I don't know the name of the group that was formed to bring the issue before the supreme court of Hawaii and have not bothered to research it) But I know it well enough. How you might ask? Because my cousin who frequented the beach called Pine Trees on the Big Island when Nansay tried to block the only access used her knowledge of the issue and her connections with the Hawaiian people (her friends I might add) and was instrumental in helping the Hawaiian people form the coalition that eventually won all Hawaiians the right to gather at traditional gathering locations. In that case it was fresh water ponds in the area of the beach that everyone had frequented and fished for shrimp since the Hawaiians were here and up to the day that Nansay was brought to court and continues to this day because one caucasian helped her Hawaiian friends organize and eventually win the landmark decision that allows Hawaiians to do it legally now. T
Of course this has nothing to do with me other than give me an inside view of the case (to a certain degree) and understand the plight of the Hawaiians relating to subsistence and rights of gathering.
Does this mean I agree? You bet. I have lived amongst the Hawaiians here in Wainiha for 39 years. I have seen the sense of hopelessness and had empathy for them. I have many Hawaiian friends and respect for those of them that show true aloha. Because I'm not of this place (based on birth) I cannot claim to be Hawaiian and do not ever presume to be one in the ancestry sense. But in the spiritual sense I am Hawaiian. I do know enough about the practice of Aloha from my observations and history of experiences to say I understand Aloha and I have constantly tried to change the ways of my own upbringing to blend and get along better in the place I live. (Abandoned and no love whatsoever) I admit to my "Haole" roots but I feel that I have integrated here enough to understand the culture and Aloha enough to blend in and get along here. Otherwise I would have been run out long ago. As anyone who knows the area, people that don't belong here end up gone for numerous reasons. I by no means feel any entitlement. Nor do I wish to do anything more than to inspire anyone who crosses my pat positively.
That being said I will say unaquiviclbly that most of the "facts" presented here by second, third and fourth hand passing along of gossip is completely innacurate and in some cases slanderous. Now I'm not here to do anything more than be helpful. Sincerely. I want to bring to your attention first of all how facts get distorted. This blog has so many innaccurate facts stated about what happened it should be against the law. No I'm not going to get into a he said-she said conversation. In fact this is all I'm going to write and when this comment is over I'm done with the conversation here.
Let's just say it's easy for someone to paint others in a bad light to make themselves seem better and sympathetic in a setting like this blog or have their promoters do it by telling one story then only to have it distorted put out on a blog and called fact. I don't see any comments by Kaili here do I?
I'm not the type to confront someone without good cause. There was no confrontation on my part other than asking someone in my yard what his name was first and foremost for which I was given a false name. When I was treated in a disrespectful manner which included profanity and the clain that the person could do anything they wanted to do I came out of my house and had to physically stop them from going further into the property. I then encouraged hin to calm down, repeat, calm down. I never yelled once and I never accused anyone of the theft. There was a theft and the people in my rental happened to come back and see this person leaving the deck of the house, talked to him and gave me a description. The interaction between me and Kaili was spontaneous.
After a bit of cajoling Ili left swearing all the way out the driveway and kicking the OPEN gate on his way out. He then went across to the other side and looked into the stream as I had suggested to try from that side. At which time I told him from the lanai which I was in when he was under the window on my side, that I liked my privacy and something to the effect that I wished him aloha. Because of his confrontational attitude there was no chance for civil communication before but I wanted to end it on a point of wishing him Aloha. If that would have taken place perhaps he would have found out that I was indeed someone who would allow him here to fish if he had followed the common courtesy of checking in with the owner of the property and not coming in with attitude and a reckless disregard for anyone else but himself and his own agenda. I know the way it's done. I haven't just lived isolated here. I have had many chances to learn the Hawaiian ways and although I'm basically a paranoid person from my upbringing I have always loved the Hawaiians who I met that were truly of the Hawaiian spirit. I have used my interactions here to learn how to be Hawaiian in spirit.
Unfortunately this spirit has not always been passed on from the elders to the children. I have seen the easygoing days when I first came to the rampaging days of drugs and no law to the colonization of Kauai by wealthy off islanders to now where there are numerous Hawaii and feeling disenfranchised and a true sense of hopelessness. I do empathize and I do love the culture and believe me I understand that.
From this little incident and the way it has taken on a completely distorted view of what really happened it is clear to me now how rumors and false truth is created. You should all be aware of this when you read things that have been repeated with completely biased intent.
Me, I'm secure in what I did and how it was handled. I intend to work it out with Kaili if I see him again in my own way as interpreted by my own sense of Aloha. I tried to turn it to that when it was happening but rage and the heat of the moment for Kaili prevented that from happening.
My suggestion to the Hawaiians is to really try to let go of the anger and sense of hopelessness. Believe me I know the feeling. I'm not going into details on that other to say I know it well and I have faced myself at the lowest of times and looked at my own faults and grown out of them as a way to survive here in Wainiha and in the social arena in general.
People here that know me, I mean really know me will have nothing negative to say about me. Why? Because I've always tried to please people and do the right thing although I have veered off that track once or twice. Living here in Wainiha I've learned that sometimes you have to stand your ground. This case was definitely one of them due to the wrongness of the behavior and the disrespect shown me the caretaker (in the Hawaiian sense) of this kuleana. My kuleana.
Yesterday Keith and Jake Maka came to see me. I give Keith all my plastic and glass now. And he asked me if he could bring his family in and swim. I had no problem telling him yes. I want to share this wonderfully spiritual kuleana with people I feel comfortable around. I have shard it with my guests. They in turn got the spiritually rejuvenating experience I have every day. I view myself as the caretaker just passing through.
I have lived here on the river for 39 years now. I have seen my property go from cat claw and Hou to a beautiful paradise. I have seen the river full of Muscovie ducks, mud hens and the heron diminish to nothing. I have seen the local boys string net across the river illegally and get them all including the babies. I have seen them eat the Muscovie ducks. I have never said anything to them even though I have been asked by the DLNR to do so if I saw it. It just isn't my place to do so.
Yes I'm trying to set the record straight here for the sake of truth which I strongly believe in. I'm also doing this to inspire you people who put out second hand information to watch what you say because it has unintended consequences and unless you were there all of it is just here say.
I know Kaili's uncle and aunt. It was easy for me to find out who he was and his background because I am part of the community not an outsider with "vacation rentals". I live here, belong here and know the elders the kapunas. They are the ones that have allowed me to stay. Do you think I'm going to cause that blessing to be endangered by dumb selfish behavior?
And the last thing I'll say is this. Using vacation rentals as a scapegoat for what is happening is just plain the wrong approach. I'll take the people who stay here with me over some of my neighbors any day. The point being that they aren't changing the neighborhoods that much. It's a bit different but the locals are still here. The same families dominate and the local character is still intact. What isn't intact is the Aloha spirit as presented to outsiders or anyone who isn't part of the establishment here. Period end of story. Try another approach because the county just plain needs the tax money and they will continue. They didn't cause the influx of people. Humanity did. Population explosion did. It's called"progress" which to me is an ugly word but it is fact. You all need to go with the flow and adapt. Organize and do things without hatred and anger. Do it cool and correct. I know that works because my cousin helped her Hawaiian friends do it on the big island and it that has gained all the Hawaiians that gathering right that people like Kaili have misinterpreted and twisted to suit their own agenda which was completely the wrong approach and resulted in his "day being ruined" That is a laugh. What happened here didn't ruin my day even though I could have let it because I believe in no hu hu. But if someone comes to my place, disrespects me and his own people by his actions I'll do what I have to do to rectify the situation without confrontation if at all possible. When I was physically restraining him from going further in as he called ma a f****** Haole and telling me he could go anywhere I did what a rational empathetic person would. I asked him to calm down never raising my voice but being stern and turning him around and asking him to leave. As he walked away swearing I told him to show some aloha at which point he called me the name and told me I know nothing about Aloha. That seemed really odd coming from the mouth that was spewing such venom and showing such feelings of hopelessness. To have let him just come in at that moment would not have done HIM any service at all because no matter what he was angry, closed minded and with a having an empty backpack didn't look like fisherman to me. You show people respect to get it and you show empathy and friendliness to gain collegues as someone in the blog so incorrectly pointed out that I didn't have a clue as to the concept of because they had no concept of what took place here. Believe me I know it well because to survive here in this valley I had to learn a lot quickly. One of the first was that you get what you give here. It's pretty simple.
I'm not writing any more. If I see Kaili again and he's the same way I'll treat him the same. I support the rights of Hawaiians to gather as long as they are courteous. I have considered myself on the front lines here and kept to myself. I just want to inspire people and do the right thing. If that involves stopping someone who comes into my kuleana with complete disrespect, rage and no concept of what is right. I'm going to do what I have to do rectify the situation in a pono way and make sure it's resolved in a fair manner. If that involves physically restraining someone as I try to calm them then so be it.
Count me out of this conversation now. I'm not an activist and I have to work. I hope more than anything that there are words here that inspire something positive. I only want to help. I'm secure in my decisions, who I am as a person and that I did the right thing in this instance. I'm not going to sign it because it's really nobody's business who I am other than Kaili and he knows who I am now anyhow.
Aloha...

Anonymous said...

I appreciated reading the response....I hope that this owner, Kaili, his auntie and uncle and whomever else is deemed appropriate will simply come to the table for ho`oponopono. The political and organizational angle can come too. But ho`oponopono could be the most effective beginning for healing.

Anonymous said...

Suddenly the story is much more complex than originally told. Thanks for sharing that. There's a tendency among activists and believers in causes to tell half a story because it suits their one-sided view of things. This rounds out the story and makes it feel much more real and nuanced. Again, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Katy,

When our culture puts to death a poor person whose crime was that their shadow fell across the shadow of an elite person, then you can lecture us about how our culture is just as horrible as theirs was. Until then, open your eyes and mind.

Anonymous said...

There's a tendency among activists and believers in causes to tell half a story because it suits their one-sided view of things.Oh, like this guy isn't telling just his own varnished version of events that makes him look like Mr. Reasonable and suits his one-sided view of things? Get real.

Like so many other phony haoles he starts and ends with Aloha, but his words in between convey none of that. He just proves once again everything that is wrong with this place -- right down to his illegal vacation rentals.

Anonymous said...

FYI: The Polynesians brought domesticated pigs (and dogs and chickens, etc.) to the islands.

Anonymous said...

That guy is a f****** Haole. Who the hell is he telling one Hawaiian show aloha after he tells him get out?

Anonymous said...

Hawaiians have to act with respect too. It doesn't all go one way.

Anonymous said...

That's the problem. Its been going all one way. The way the haoles want it.

Anonymous said...

Good grief--who are the racists--seems to me the people who automatically discount the 'phony haole' or the 'f*** haole with the long, fairly detailed (although somewhat rambling) description of his side of the story....would you like it if the young man's version was discounted solely by virtue of the color of his skin? Didn't think so, and don't try to justify due to the past....if that is used we will never make progress...

Anonymous said...

As with all racism, it's very self righteous. Watch, one should be coming along any minute now to regale us with their pet theory that it is impossible for anyone but a white person to be a racist.

Anonymous said...

I'm not going to sign it because it's really nobody's business who I am

Wrong. It is our business who you are Mark Barbanell.

Dawson said...

"When our culture puts to death a poor person whose crime was that their shadow fell across the shadow of an elite person, then you can lecture us about how our culture is just as horrible as theirs was."

If you want to compare atrocities committed by Hawaiians 500 years ago to those of other cultures, how about Europeans? You can start with the barbarisms of the Spanish and the Catholic Church, followed by a swell trip down memory lane to Mesoamerica and the Conquistadores.

500 years too long ago? No problem, let's visit the 18th century California Missions.

End of lecture.

Anonymous said...

But, see, nobody was stupid enough to say we should be humble and learn from the Europeans the Spanish and the Catholic Church and the Conquistadores. They said we should be humble and learn from the Hawaiians. And it was a lot more recent than 500 years ago they were snuffing people in their sleep and hanging them from poles in heiaus.

Anonymous said...

"Wrong. It is our business who you are"

The act of a true asshole. Anonymously naming another anonymous poster. What a dickhead. What a pathetic pile of poo. What a little slime wad. You are pathetic.

Katy Rose said...

Wait a second - I went to school for a few years, and I recall that the majority of my education centered on the contributions, histories, arts, literatures and philosophies of Europeans and people of European descent.

In other words, you're dead wrong.

Anonymous said...

"FYI: The Polynesians brought domesticated pigs (and dogs and chickens, etc.) to the islands."

-- appreciate the response, ty


"impossible for anyone but a white person to be a racist."

-- not that this argument is often made in hawaii (let alone well), but there is something to be said for vitriol directed at an economically more powerful group being not quite as bad as if that powerful group were to direct same to the less powerful group. the word "gringo" as used in latin america by "locals" there towards north americans is a kind of a similar example


"f****** Haole"

-- damn. where where you dude? that would have name for a bitchin username. wish you would have dropped the f bomb on us a while back


May 11, 2009 10:25 AM
May 11, 2009 10:48 PM
May 12, 2009 1:19 AM

Anonymous said...

He's applying for two vacation rentals in the Open district.

07/12/2008 TV-1169-NCU BARBANELL MARK RIVER ESTATE 580060580000 5-6691 KUHIO HWY O Incomplete

10/14/2008 TVNC-1279 BARBANELL MARK RIVER ESTATE 580060110002 1 6689 KUHIO HWY O Incomplete

Here's the website:
http://www.riverestate.com/

We have recently been named one of Hawaii's top ten most romantic hotels by Gayot.com (Gayot Travel Guide was first published in 1981 by Andre Gayot) We're very proud of that.

Staying at River Estate just might be one of the finest natural Hawaiian vacation experiences you'll ever have.

$250 Night - $1695 Week (2 Guests)
$275 Night - $1875 Week (Holidays)

"I don't think we'll ever be able to stay at a resort again. They just don't offer the privacy and tranquility that River Estate does. "

darwin_was_pretty_smart said...

"It is our business who you are Mark Barbanell."

-- ok wow that was funny

Katy Rose said...

If your definition of "racism" is name-calling, anyone is capable of that. But if you look at racism as one racial group with economic and social power using that power to systematically - and successfully - exploit and deny privileges to another racial group, then it becomes a little simpler to understand why, in the context of a white-dominated society like the US, racism is associated with white people.

Of course the question is complicated in Hawai'i, since so many political and civic officials are not white. But it's not as simple as saying that white people are victimized by racial oppression in Hawai'i. Certainly, other racialized groups in Hawai'i can make valid claims to being shut out or oppressed, Native Hawaiians most clearly among them. But white people in Hawai'i are not disproportionately jailed, homeless, sick, impoverished, clustered in low-paying service jobs or under-educated, so the evidence of racism against white people in Hawai'i is simply non-existent. In fact, the opposite case could be made much more easily by looking at who owns the land, who controls most of the wealth, and the simple fact that Hawai'i is dominated by the laws, commerce and military of the US.

If the worst thing that's ever happened to you is being called a f****ing haole, you're doing pretty good. Try to remember that there's a difference between name-calling and hurt feelings, and racist oppression.

Anonymous said...

River Estate owns Cheap Hawaii Tickets,Inc which is a full service Hawaii based travel agency. We will be happy to give you a quote on all or any portion of your travel package needs including other accommodations, airline tickets, car rentals or activities on Kauai or any other islands in your itinerary.

http://www.riverestate.com/kauai-vacation-rental-prices.html

He's so full of aloha he sells it. No wonder he thinks the vacation rentals in Wainiha-Haena are no problem.

Anonymous said...

Man, some of these comments are really harsh. What's up with that?

Anonymous said...

"Man, some of these comments are really harsh. What's up with that?"

Aloha for me but not for thee syndrome.

Dawson said...

"He's so full of aloha he sells it."

ROFLMAO!

That quote is perfect! Not just about the No Fishin' Here guy, but about the whole visitor industry.

Dawson said...

"And it was a lot more recent than 500 years ago they were snuffing people in their sleep and hanging them from poles in heiaus."

It was less than 120 years ago that American soldiers were shooting unarmed Native American men, women and children. And 15 years ago that American public schools were still teaching kids that Custer was a hero massacred by murdering Sioux, and the California Padres were pious souls who took care of the California Indians.

Give it up, pal. When it comes to vicious & twisted, Hawaiians gotta take a number and get in the back of the line.

darwin_was_pretty_smart said...

"so the evidence of racism against white people in Hawai'i is simply non-existent"

--- oh come on now...(and i am not talking about "grino" put-downs, as i noted earlier). would be easy to offer racially charged assaults/batteries as evidence, for starters


"If the worst thing that's ever happened to you is being called a f****ing haole, you're doing pretty good."

-- agreed


"He's so full of aloha he sells it"

-- pretty much one of the funniest comments to grace this blog

Anonymous said...

Try to keep up Dawson. Nobody on this blog is stupidly saying anyone should be humble and learn from the American Manifest Destiny. Somebody on this blog was stupid enough to say we should be humble and learn from the Hawaiians. Your point is irrelevant. You might as well point to the Chinese and give us a lesson on their violent history. History is violent. So was the Hawaiians history. So don't be such a doe-eyed ninny about it.

Anonymous said...

"I don't think we'll ever be able to stay at a resort again. They just don't offer the privacy and tranquility that River Estate does. "

Until a Hawaiian walks in the yard. Then look out. All hell breaks loose.

Anonymous said...

"Until a Hawaiian walks in the yard. Then look out. All hell breaks loose."

Nah. You just tell um to be respectful or leave and they either get respect or go because if they don't the police will come and make them leave one way or the other.

Anonymous said...

May 12, 2009 8:28 AM

Thought you said you werenʻt going to get into he-say she-say?
And this will be the last you comment...r i g h t

Guess you guys get real jittery when thereʻs a brown guy around and GOTTA be the thief, I mean it couldnʻt be a white thief ...
r i g h t

Anonymous said...

May 12, 2009 9:50 AM

Well said!

Anonymous said...

""Does it matter where the pigs originally came from or the fact that Hawaiians have incorporated pig hunting as a subsistence?"

I wrote that question and received a lot of whitish anal responses.

The problem here is, the Hawaiians have been ʻlegislatedʻ like a piece of meat. And I might add, very deceptive and evil legislation used as a cattle prod...on one hand, gathering rights are provided for in the hawaii const. and on the other it is taken away with a swift: "unless the legislature deems otherwise".

It is workable though and the Hawaiians rights have certainly got more weight than most can see.

Itʻs just that the fraud against them has continued for too damn long. But things are changing. You will see.

Yep, Mr. Vacation rental, hyp hyp hooray sure spent a lot of space babbling in his own honor. Not to mention, heʻs less than honest just in the mere fact that he said he wouldnʻt he-say she-say. Kaili never blasted him on the blog but he sure ripped Kaili a new one.

Shame to hell on this guy and his nauseating version of ʻhawaiianaʻ.

By the way, I hate that word. It is very haole.

Oh yea, Iʻm haole: a foreigner, nothing to do with race, schmuckarroos.

Anonymous said...

I get the idea this forum is mostly white people fighting amongst themselves.

darwin_was_pretty_smart said...

"Guess you guys get real jittery when thereʻs a brown guy around and GOTTA be the thief, I mean it couldnʻt be a white thief ..."

-- i only get jittery if he or she has been drinking, dosing, and/or is armed (or works on a cruise ship)


"I wrote that question and received a lot of whitish anal responses."

-- no, not "a lot," just one, mine (such as it was). or were you thinking all those folks were responding to you? awe..


"I get the idea this forum is mostly white people fighting amongst themselves."

-- pretty much ya; and just a bunch of people on the far left, a handful on the far right, and a few in the middle. good times

Anonymous said...

I am curious--why not acknowledge that it is just wrong to discount comments/points of view by citing race/ethnicity/income status instead of trying to tie yourself in verbal knots to justify namecalling (of any group)--racism is racism--wrong in any form.

Anonymous said...

I wonder, if people spend so much time and energy fighting amongst themselves on the community level who is watching the people and companies with the influence and money to do real damage? Is all the energy being spent in the wrong place?

Anonymous said...

I don't know anyone out here who likes Mark Barbanell. It's amusing that he thinks we like him because he hasn't been "run out." What an idiot. There are a lot of local haoles that aren't liked or respected, but like Mark, they probably think they are.
And the drug rampage he refers to - he was part of it, and the way he paid for the property he vacation rents today. He is in serious need of help, because he is one deluded haole.

No wonder Ili responded the way he did. Mark's reputation as being an a___hole preceeds him.

Anonymous said...

"I don't know anyone out here who likes Mark Barbanell."

Well, there's no longer any reason to take polls on Kauai, then. We'll just ask you what everybody thinks about everything.

Anonymous said...

They warred on each other constantly and as a matter of practice murdered as many of the vanquished as they could run down, including noncombatant elderly, women, and children. So spare us the "We have much to learn from the Noble Savages" routine.

Yup, give us the modern savages:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/world/asia/15farah.html?hp

Anonymous said...

We're all savages. Some fight with weapons, some with money and lawyers.

The key is that, then and now, there are winners and losers. "Right" and "wrong" have very little to do with it.

Personally, I'm always on the side of the winner.