In reading the comments that have been posted about the bike path the past few days, I was struck in particular by one that noted:
folks forget or don't care that the continued assault of development is culimative [cumulative] and another example of the cultural genocide that takes place daily. the host culture can only take so much.
I thought it was a good response to the prevailing beliefs of the dominant culture that in this case have been expressed with such insensitive remarks as:
Why are they objecting now? The area was disturbed when they built the cane haul road and they didn’t say anything then. It’s a light footprint compared to undergrounding the utilities. Preserve your heritage, stop whining about how it was desecrated.
These thoughtless comments are way off-mark for a number of reasons.
First, as the Office of Hawaiian Affairs noted in explaining why it had reversed its stance and come out in opposition to the path on the beach:
Much has occurred in the Native Hawaiian community with regards to the understanding of the significant relationship of the various components of the traditional cultural landscape of the ancestors. ...
“The connections to the past, and thus the direction for the future, are being made everyday as the pieces of the past are lovingly, gingerly, and humbly put back together in a race against time and irreparable loss from destruction and alteration.”
In other words, cultural understanding is an evolving process when you’re trying to restore and revitalize an indigenous culture that has been damaged, fragmented and suppressed by an occupying nation.
Second, there’s the issue of time and money. It takes a tremendous amount of energy and resources to challenge an issue. Sometimes, offensive projects aren’t dealt with immediately because people are often busy waging battles on other fronts, educating themselves about the situation or simply tending to their own daily survival needs. And it’s difficult to get legal help, seeing as how OHA and Native Hawaiian Legal Corp. have limited funding and endless potential cases, and only a few good-hearted attorneys (go Hempey!) are willing to work pro bono on Hawaiian issues.
Meanwhile, they’re up against people who are being paid to fight against them, whether it’s private attorneys or government workers.
Third, these comments assume the premise that there is a specific time, some cutoff point, where people lose their right to object to the degradation and/or subjugation of their culture, or to express their opposition to a proposed project. Where, exactly, is that written? When, precisely, do people lose their right to say "no"?
Then there are those who argue the cultural claims are mere artifice — and who are we, really, to determine that? — or a disingenuous cover for an anti-development attitude, as if they're two separate matters. When you have a culture that holds that land is sacred, and embraces such concepts as malama `aina and aloha `aina, it doesn’t seem unreasonable that concerns about development would dovetail nicely into cultural preservation efforts.
And then we have those who demand proof of sacred claims:
If the kanaka want to be taken seriously, they should bring some actual evidence to the table. I would tend to believe them if they had some evidence, something concrete, tangible, etc. Please try!!!!
What sort of concrete, tangible evidence would be sufficiently convincing? Or to put the question another way, what evidence has been presented to prove that the Vatican is sacred and shouldn’t be destroyed? Or the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, or any of the other Christian sites in Jeruselum? Or the Bible and various sacred Christian texts? Or the cathedrals in Europe?
Why is that only indigenous people must "prove," to the satisfaction of Westerners, that the lands and sites they’ve designated as sacred actually are? Why is that their sacred sites are up for grabs and/or destruction and desecration if they can’t prove their value to cultural outsiders and non-believers?
Of course, these arguments aren’t intended to advance a reasonable argument, despite the devotion to logic and reason that their proponents profess.
All these arguments — these dismissals, really — are part of a larger, far more insidious agenda: marginalize and discredit the host culture so that it can overridden and ignored.
"Sometimes, offensive projects aren’t dealt with immediately because people are often busy waging battles on other fronts, educating themselves about the situation.."
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which this debate can only be a step toward the appropriation of the Coco Palms property into a culture park.
When the Buddhas of Bamyan were delibrately destroyed by the Taliban in March 2001, it was convincing "concrete, tangible evidence" of desecration. When the Taliban said they were going to do so, it was correctly argued that desecration would be taking place. By contrast, we currently have mere declarations without convincing expanations or facts about how or why a relatively small change in the current state of the Wailua oceanfront will constitute a desecration. Declarations like "The Superferrys will be acquired and operated by the Military," are easily made and often only come true in the imagination of the one declaring.
ReplyDeleteRight on target Joan!
ReplyDelete"When, precisely, do people lose their right to say 'no'?"
1 Never, unless
2 they give up, or
3 the genocide is complete
Just because the colon-ist pass laws, decrees, lock people up, torture and kill them to enforce their "laws" does not in any sense of the word mean that the oppressed population loses their right to refuse and resist by any means necessary. Their is no individual right to revolution, but certainly a duty to revolution, so do your duty every day to keep the oppressor off guard and at bay, and please stop and smell the flowers along the way so that they think your a harmless idiot.
"All these arguments — these dismissals, really — are part of a larger, far more insidious agenda: marginalize and discredit the host culture so that it can overridden and ignored."
ReplyDelete...overridden and ignored so that the host culture's resources can be robbed by the dominant culture in pursuit of profit.
Land, wildlife, gold, petroleum, ocean views, cultural iconography, language and music are pillaged -- along with the host culture's right to do or say anything about it.
From legal chicanery to insensitive comments on blogs, the five hundred year old battle to marginalize and silence native voices continues.
"By contrast, we currently have mere declarations without convincing expanations or facts about how or why a relatively small change in the current state of the Wailua oceanfront will constitute a desecration."
ReplyDeleteexcuse me but your narrow view omits the fact that the desecration began when the temple(heiau complex of wailua)walls were removed to create roads,buildings and landscaping for missionary/plantation types back in the 1800's.
a bike path on the beach in wailua is just modern example of the genocidal tendencies of the dominant culture.the tendency to snuff the out the host culture's roots when it serves them has been the MO of the conquerors for far too long.
ps thnx for correcting cumulative
"occupying nation"
ReplyDelete-- good luck on having that political premise incorporated into local public policy
"appropriation of the Coco Palms property into a culture park."
-- many people have noted this idea. seems unlikely gov and/or a nonprofit will finance it. wonder if st leg could find a way to offer a special tax credit to current owners to help it happen
"Where, exactly, is that written? "
-- state and county government department administrative rules? my (lazy) general answer to what is of course a good legit question / point
"Then there are those who argue the cultural claims are mere artifice — and who are we, really, to determine that?"
-- the merit of killing if your shadow falls in the wrong place seems pretty clear, for example
"What sort of concrete, tangible evidence would be sufficiently convincing?"
-- a burial on that side of where the dunes used to be; seems thats what the guy was asking. but you are right - there is much religious / superstitious voodoo out there
"far more insidious agenda: marginalize and discredit the host culture so that it can overridden and ignored."
-- goes to show, people believe alot of weird stuff. birthers. 9/11 people, 2012 people
dwps
dwps said: "-- the merit of killing if your shadow falls in the wrong place seems pretty clear, for example"
ReplyDeleteIts not pono to take a cultural artifact as if culture does not change and use that to discredit the oppressed. A slightly more sophisticated version of "What you want us all to go back to living in grass shacks?" Actually construction using natural materials like reeds, bamboo, and grasses have advanced quite a bit.
"-- the merit of killing if your shadow falls in the wrong place seems pretty clear, for example"
ReplyDeleteThe foundation of that argument is specious, racist and half a millennium old: "They [the dark skinned ones] were/are/will be barbaric to their own kind, therefore we [the white skinned ones] are justified in conquering/eradicating/paternalistically enlightening their culture -- and, of course, appropriating their property." It arrived with the profit-motivated priests who accompanied Columbus, and continues to this day.
"The foundation of that argument is specious, racist and half a millennium old: "They [the dark skinned ones] were/are/will be barbaric to their own kind, therefore we [the white skinned ones] are justified in conquering/eradicating/paternalistically enlightening their culture -- and, of course, appropriating their property." It arrived with the profit-motivated priests who accompanied Columbus, and continues to this day."
ReplyDelete-- good. discussion (maybe). oh, and that reply is so off base as to be weird. and the prism governing the reply is far, far to simple (sorry). i trust you could do better if you really tried, but i know you like saying that stuff
anyways, if graphed, or otherwise reviewed, what past habits / rituals / values, whatever (ie, culture) are OK for moderns times and what are not. what are the details. we agree of course the shadow thing is out. if we were in greece, we would agree the man-boy love thing is out. we agree that formal caste systems are out. we agree that incest is out. those are of course the easy ones (past items accepted at one point in time)
how are things such as this measured and decided now? current majority rule? how wrongly injured a party / group may have been? (and/or by whom?). do concepts of utility come into play? is utility an ill-legitimate value? is "the law" involved? how does law vs public good / utility vs engineering cost vs social justice play out? you get the idea
state of the art sonar shows "0" anything on (under) that beach? then what, the ~ "spirit in the sand particle" bars a path now? but the 700 yr old structures down by hapa trail...that warranted only token outcry (and ridiculously late and weak legal action)? is it random pick and choose time? seems unfair to ask random civilians to be consistent on such items huh? should those that so care therefor be accused of ill-intent in their seeming randomness? seems we should just be happy they care
dont get me wrong, the pathy path interest me little. but what it shows amongst the complainers is passingly interesting for sure, esp when they vilify a few folks essential trying to keep a park system alive
"they who are shocked at the faults of others are often full of themselves"
pls pardon the long comments. ty
dwps
ps
"Its not pono to take a cultural artifact as if culture does not change and use that to discredit the oppressed. A slightly more sophisticated version of "What you want us all to go back to living in grass shacks?"
-- agreed. it can change per the people practicing it as they see fit. free country
"excuse me but your narrow view omits the fact that the desecration began when the temple(heiau complex of wailua)walls were removed to create roads,buildings and landscaping for missionary/plantation types back in the 1800's."
ReplyDeleteMore likely when the kapus were lifted and the burden of religion was reduced.
The foundation of Dawson's sentiments and others poosting here are also "specious, racist and half a millennium old." Those sentiments can be lumped under the 18th Century concept of "The Noble Savage," a myth whereby the natural man, unencumbered by the decadence of Western Civilization, can do, and knows, no wrong; lives a peaceful, aloha filled life pulling abundant fruit from trees.
ReplyDelete"If the kanaka want to be taken seriously, they should bring some actual evidence to the table. I would tend to believe them if they had some evidence, something concrete, tangible, etc. Please try!!!!"
ReplyDeleteWasn't this the same shallow, ignorant response re Brescia? ....Until they unearthed dozens of graves?
So, I want proof that there are still soldiers buried at Punchbowl and Arlington. Otherwise those markers should come out and affordable housing goes in. I mean, they say they are buried there, but the bodies and coffins could have been removed; weren't they doing that on Oahu last year??
"Those sentiments can be lumped under the 18th Century concept of "The Noble Savage," a myth whereby the natural man, unencumbered by the decadence of Western Civilization, can do, and knows, no wrong; lives a peaceful, aloha filled life pulling abundant fruit from trees."
ReplyDeleteBull. There's nothing noble about the savage.
You missed the point Dawson (to no one's surprise). The point was that the fallacy of worship of perfection, applied to the indigenous, has been around so long, that it was given a name centuries ago: "Noble Savage"
ReplyDeleteLook it up and learn.
nowondertheyhateus said...
ReplyDelete"If the kanaka want to be taken seriously, they should bring some actual evidence to the table. I would tend to believe them if they had some evidence, something concrete, tangible, etc.
That was the job of nancy at SHPD, and they passed, required absolutely no archaeology work previous to the actual construction. Wailua is a place of such storied cultural significance, with known burials all over the place, and here the state fails to require the archaeology Inventory Study that would have answered that question, and you have the nerve to tell us to prove it. That is the problem, the states utter failure to provide any studies before giving their approval. That is not the job of the citizens, nor can we do the studies . Knowing the sensitivities, why did the state blow it? The people cannot do these studies, and thus can't prove it to you, sloppy work by the state, the county didn't, doesn't care about burials, and protection of the Iwi Kupuna, they just wanna dig them up, and move em out of the way .
In Letters to the Editor today:
ReplyDelete"The tough decision by our mayor to keep the bike path adjacent and along the beach in Wailua is a good and sound decision. SHPD has pointed out that the proposed location of the path makai of the highway is the path of least potential archaeological disturbances. Good clear thinking obviously led to the mayor’s decision.
Now, if only we could look at condemning lands for the bike path makai of the Waipouli Beach Resort. It seem ridiculous to divert the bike path across the highway in front of Safeway just to avoid having the bike path in the view plane of the resort. Can’t figure out how this happened.
I believe the plans for the bike path was in motion when permits for the resort were being contemplated. Beside that, there is lot of land between the structures and the shoreline. Call your favorite council person and let’s get this going."
Ron Agor, Lihu‘e
Rumor has it that Mr. Agor will be a candidate for State Senator. Not too impressive, Sir.
Notice the rebuplicans like the path, spport from superferry supporter Kimo Rosen and now Ron Agor, and of course the mayor, who also is really a rebuplican...they don't care about anything but money, which is what the bikepath is all about. connecting the resorts . If they cared about constructing alternate transportation, it wouldn't be planned on the oceanfront. Dumb place to build, all around the world development is moving away from the coast, except Kauai.
ReplyDeleteThe attempt at linking this issue to Republican/Democratic politics is not just weak, it's laughable.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, Mr. Rosen is not a Republican. He named his dog "Obama" during the election just so he could shout that name all over town and irritate Republicans and establish his support publicly. Until recently, he lived a block away from Wailua Beach. He still spends his days traveling between Wailua and Kapaa via bicycle; since he doesn't own a car. He's entitled to his opinion on this issue.
Mr. Agor has run for office as a Republican and will do so in the future; I'm sure. As DLNR Rep for Kauai, his work to preserve Kokee from commercialization by the State may surprise you and conflict with your simplistic "us against them" perspective. He is also entitled to his opinion.
This is a local issue. Your efforts, and those of others, to make it a partisan issue are not helpful at all.
Sorry, but spending public funds on a public path is NOT a republican impulse, your straining to link it to capitalism notwithstanding. No, this is a fight among democrats who love to spend taxpayer money but who are easily divided and mau-maued by "diversity" issues.
ReplyDelete"If they cared about constructing alternate transportation, it wouldn't be planned on the oceanfront."
ReplyDeleteExactly. The route would be planned as a low speed transportation corridor for people to get around cheaply. It would be esigned for use by pedestrians and non-combustion vehicles in use now and those to come. Nothing wrong with path access to the oceans and parks, but people need cheap safe ways to get around for both work, exercise and relaxation, and not to connect resorts together so it becomes nothing more than a walk-in-the-park or a leisure bike ride for "up-scale" tourists. Compare well designed paths in Portland and Anchorage to poorly designed built-for-tourist paths of Cancun and San Diego.
"OHA and Native Hawaiian Legal Corp. have limited funding"
ReplyDeleteLOL! Like millions upon millions of dollars!! And it's not OHA that's funding the NHLC, but your State income tax dollars. So, the NHLC is like our very own little ACLU for Hawaiians. Their most frequent type of case is extorting landowners via false quiet title claims. Check it out.