Tuesday, August 6, 2013

Musings: Burning Rush

Get ready to fish or cut bait in 30 days. That's the message Councilman Gary Hooser delivered to his colleagues at the end of yesterday's Committee meeting on 2491, his pesticide/GMO regulatory/disclosure bill.

“I would ask the Council members to be prepared to vote in a month, offer amendments if you'd like, or vote it up or down, and not kill this bill via deferral,” said Gary, who chairs the Committee. “If you don't like the bill, we vote it up or down. Amend it as you wish and move on. That would be my suggestion.”

I can understand why Gary doesn't want to dilly-dally on this hot topic, or let the bill shilly-shally into the often-lethal abyss of deferrals. It's far too important an issue to languish in Council Committee Purgatory as we all pray for its ascension.

I can also understand why he was resisting the call of his less zealous colleagues to wait until the legal opinions come out.

Because let's be realistic. The Attorney General is not likely to issue an opinion supporting a bill that says counties can make any kine with an industry the state has aggressively courted. Nor is Deputy County Attorney MaunaKea Trask expected to back a bill he balked at before it was even introduced.

So no, let's not be waiting for those opinions to give the Council a convenient out.

But up or down in 30 days on a bill of this complexity? An issue that has each side ardently proclaiming only they speak the truth? A measure that generated more than 2,000 Council emails, countless phone calls, hours of testimony, and submittals that included studies and reports? A law that will require our rather hapless county to perform a number of new functions?

Is it really fair to expect the Council to digest all that and get up to speed in 30 days, when Gary himself spent months working on the bill and co-sponsor Tim Bynum claims he's been boning up on pesticides/GMOs for a decade?

More importantly, are we likely to get a good law if it's cobbled together in one marathon Committee meeting? Because even if we pretend that Bill 2491 is perfect, Gary clearly does not have the votes to pass the bill as written. Which means amendments and compromises for sure are coming. And all that is to be hammered out in one meeting? With the public weighing in where?

What's the burning rush?

It's already evident the Council is not going to pass "the bill" as introduced. So we need to make sure they pass a good bill — one that's not too watered down, one that can effectively protect environmental and human health from toxic pesticides. Based on what I've seen in my 26 years of following county government, that ain't gonna happen in one meeting, or 30 days.

I think we can get a Council majority to do something about the pesticide problem. But if they're cornered into a 30-day decision on a bill of this magnitude, I'm frankly afraid they'll vote no — even if it will expose them to more fury from the haters who characterized them as "pesticide-lovers" and "Satan's vipers" because they didn't pass the bill yesterday.  

And where will that will leave those of us who are seeking disclosure on restricted use pesticides, and more controls on the companies that apply them?

It reminds me of a post I saw on Facebook yesterday about the new cloned hamburger. The poster commented, If it's a choice between that and cutting down Amazon rainforests for beef, I'll choose that. To which I replied, Surely those aren't the only alternatives!

I'm pretty sure there's a middle ground somewhere between endless deferrals and up or down in 30 days. Let's steer for that place.


Anonymous said...

Hey, those paniolos passed the TVR ordinance with no forethought... why not the GMO bill? After all, what else have they got to do but over react on misleading, even false allegations from squatters on the north shore?

Anonymous said...

These northshore people are not "squatters". They are very sensitive and evolved, their experiences and education allow them to understand how all land should be used. Gary and Tim have the correct views, they know that plantation mentality has diminished Kauai's westsider's ability to know what is best. We must all come together and help these poor people get new jobs and maybe, have Gary and Tim take some land from the big land owners and give to the people.

Anonymous said...

Right, they have evolved... from Taylor's camp. Right, take land from legitimate owners and give it to the squatters. A page right from Karl Marx!

Anonymous said...

governor cayetano took bold action when he shut down tour boating in Hanalei. the court said he was wrong, but he did the right thing. now, governor abercombie should step up to the plate. he can do a lot as governor under existing laws. he can require buffer zones, stricter disclosure, more sampling of air and water, and a whole lot more. he can make an announcement today that would solve this dilemna. this issue is so badly mishandled. all the energy directed at the county when people should go to the state building and demand action by the right agencies using existing laws. if you're going to bark, at least do it up the right tree.

Anonymous said...

August 6, 2013 at 6:24 PM
"Right, take land from legitimate owners and give it to the squatters. A page right from Karl Marx!"

Kind of like what we did to the Hawaiians, you mean?

Anonymous said...

Yup. And the Indians. And the Aleuts. And the Maoris. And...and...and. Darwin at work. Next question?

Anonymous said...

none for u.

Gave me another look into the chem-terrorist psyche.

Anonymous said...

Gary Hooser should be applauded for doing what he does best. Divide and conquer. Can we see his track record while he was Majority Leader in the Senate on this issue. And his sidekick Kagawa should stop trying to pass the buck to the State and should stop bullying people as well. I am in favor of this bill but I know Gary Hooser personally and this is more of retaliation because he couldn't get something handed to him on a silver platter.....like forgiveness for not paying his taxes.

Anonymous said...

Hooser's taxes weren't forgiven so he goes after the chemical/gmo companies? And Kagawa rightfully points out that it's the State's responsibility and he's passing the buck? Step away from the pipe.

Anonymous said...

Tax office (GET) forgave Gary tens of thousands that he did not have to pay back. Some pesky voters want to know why anyone gets let off the hook for GET.
This bill from the get-go had no chance of passing. There is no science, no safety net for consequences, confuses State and Fed laws, takes private property. Gary came to the herbicide users with demands and when some questioned his authority and intention, he slams a nuke bill at the chem user.Now he wants a quick up or down vote from the Council, this is easy for the council, "a quick up or down"/ Ok we vote down, not only do you put a complicated, non- science bill with real constitutional (4th amendment) concerns to us, you insist wiki wiki action. OK, we vote NO and tell Gary to holo holo.

Anonymous said...

Gary just asked the Council to keep the process going. Keep working on it because its complex. Delaying a month will just delay needed work on the bill. It's a tactic to lower the heat and burn out the unpaid advocates while the industry buys time to menuver behind the sceans. The Council should continue the work. It's their job. Opinions from lawyers won't change the need for this bill.

Anonymous said...

TO: holo holo.
August 7, 2013 at 6:41 AM

Please donʻt use/abuse or get comfortable with Hawaiian expressions when you are so misinformed about the purported ʻtakingʻ of private property.

1st, most lands being utilized by Chemcorps are Hawaiian government lands (not ceded, because nothing was ever ceded).

2nd, if the land in question is from Grove Farm, then it is still Hawaiian government land. GF lands are all leases from the former Kingdom that were to have been returned after 99 years. Instead, the white men went to the Bureau of Conveyances and ʻchangedʻ the lease into ownership. There was a lot monkey business at that time. This is only one example.

3rd, the IRS will work out arrangements for people to pay back less or in extended time arrangements and if you pay taxes you would know this. And usually someone gets a tax ʻrapʻ because a jealous individual has called in on them for retaliation.

4th - Iʻm so glad you brought up tax delinquency because it is actually the Chemcorps operating in Hawaii are about 4 years in arrears on their taxes. Not paid a dime!

So thanks for bringing up the TAX.


Anonymous said...

Gary was forgiven and to my knowledge is fine with taxes after this determination.
Cool heads will prevail in this herbicide/GMO issue.
It becomes difficult when there so many experts in a complicated science.
It is unfortunate that a couple of lawmakers consistently are the ones that polarize the community. Ag has been on Kauai a long time, and with the exceptions of the Hawaiians is the reason Kauai became "known" enough for all of the other non-ag people to come here. There is room for ag and there should be room for peace. A real danger to this haphazard legislation is the insidious power it gives to officials, there are existing laws, get the laundry list of Government officials to Kauai to test. It is not fair to use "science guys" with predetermined results. Show real health statistics, not just a few claims of health issues.......One reason why Kauai has large populations of rare plants, birds etc.and good water is because of the care of the private large landowners. These companies should not be forced to develop their real estate to survive. Most people have no idea what it takes to keep and care for big land.

Anonymous said...

TO: August 7, 2013 at 9:34 AM

You guys really go out into left field.

Do we need science to tell us poison is poisonous? To what degree and locations, etc. yes.

And we have very good scientists; ones that can stay on topic, give specifics and not wander off to GMO discussions. This is about pesticide.

As Didnʻt you hear the pre-emptive debate regarding your comment about government officials?

You got me crying big tears here: "Most people have no idea what it takes to keep and care for big land."

The Hawaiians did and still do until it was stolen.

Anonymous said...

Get her done Gary! We got your back, Kaua'i needs this. Mahalo nui loa!

Anonymous said...

Gary needs three more votes and he is burning his bridgees with the council. It seems like he is trying to dump the bill and blame it on the council.

Andy Parx said...

Gary's request that everyone be ready with amendments and to pass the bill out of committee if it was deferred for a full month was presented as an alternative to deferring until the next committee meeting (in two weeks). But because JoAnn left early, he didn't have to votes for it no matter what Nadine did. It was done because the so-called legal issue claimed by Mel and Ross (to kill the bill) is non-existent and to "wait for a legal opinion" is, in essence to kill the bill by delay.
The AG will not be giving and opinion as stated yesterday by Big Island Corp Counsel Lincoln Ashida who said he spoke to the AG and was told "no comment" is and would always be the AG's position. That's why the biotech industry tried to get the law changed last lege session to take away the counties' rights to regulate safety, especially of ag operation.
The attorneys claiming preemption have not cited, stated or implied, any because there are none. And our state constitution explicitly gives the counties that right.

Anonymous said...

Melʻs comments and questions were entirely different from Rossʻs.
It is important to know the facts and confirm about the lawsuit from Chemcorp; but there will no doubt be one from the other side.
But neither these revelations should be a determining factor for the question on the table.

Anonymous said...

Meant to say should NOT be a determining factor.

Anonymous said...

The committee vote will not be the "end all" of this Bill. Regardless of what occurs during that vote, the Bill moves to the full council for further votes and review. My point is that we should continue the process, study the issues, prepare and submit amendments and vote - and not to consider deferrals intended to stall or kill this measure. The longer we wait the more money the agrochemical companies will spend on lawyers, lobbyists and advertising in opposition...I suppose a kind of economic development we can do without. Yes, the Bill can be improved and as a result of the public discussion I intend to offer some amendments myself to that end. The classic way to kill a Bill is to delay and block while you build doubt and fear. I agree the issue should not be rushed, but also believe that 30 days more combined with the time we have already spent on this issue is sufficient to offer and to vote on some basic amendments and ultimate passage. If there is a good faith effort to pass a good Bill, then we should take as long as the 4th vote needs. However if the strategy is simply to kill the Bill, then let's not fool each other and thus we should just vote and move it to the full council as soon as possible.

For those interested in my tax history: A long time ago, before I was first elected to public office my business settled a tax dispute with the State tax office and we paid 100% of the taxes owed and the State waived the penalty and interest. Our business was way, way, way behind because like many small businesses at the time we were struggling to make ends meet, then hit by Hurricane Iniki and then almost in bankruptcy. However, at the end of the day we paid 100% of the taxes owed and were able to continue our operations until ultimately the business was profitable. gh

KatieH said...

For crying out loud people this is about health and safety, not Tim and Gary! Are you really so angry with these two politicians that you would put those feelings above respect for your Ohana? Thousands of Kauai residents showed up to show support and hundreds testified. How many can you count that are "north shore squatters" on the Silverlight feed? You can just shut off the cries of your neighbors that something is very wrong with the way these corporations are operating? the mom's and dads and uncles and aunties? the doctors and the nurses? ask yourself what these people have to gain by standing up other than the health of Kauai? Why won't the seed companies disclose acreage, spraying time, place and qty? Kauai Coffee does not contest disclosure. Stop protecting the corporations because they will not protect you, or your job.

KatieH said...

oops, "thousands sent testimony" "hundreds showed up" I do not know the exact tally how many testified for/against the bill...I like to be accurate

Anonymous said...

If they disclose: they would be inundated with lawsuits from their own employees.

Anonymous said...

Yup. And the Indians. And the Aleuts. And the Maoris. And...and...and. Darwin at work. Next question?

August 6, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Did you mean to say "evolution at work"? If you did, you're forgetting that evolution generally refers to natural selection, not genocide. So, the next question is, are you a total dumbass?

Anonymous said...

When all else fails, attack the messenger. Stick to the issue, never mind the personal attacks on Gary. Or calling the anti-GMO crowd "crazies". Have an educated conversation. I thought there was much valuable information given at the most recent council meeting. Time for transparent discourse. Time for the seed/chemical companies to cooperate. Threats of a lawsuit are anti-productive and not the local way. Be the good neighbor you claim to be.

Anonymous said...

Well, take a look here, it's a comprehensive statutory scheme that directs the Department of Ag to regulate the sale and use of pesticides. Wow, does this mean that the County may be preempted from regulating pesticides? Is this the reason that Bronster, Alston and Hoshibata or "BAH" are telling the County Council that the County will be sued if it tries to regulate pesticide use?


Part I. General Provisions


149A-1 Short title
149A-2 Definitions
149A-3 Delegation of duties
149A-4 Effect of chapter on department of health

Part II. Pesticide Licensing and Sale

149A-11 Prohibited acts
149A-12 Exemptions
149A-13 Procedure for licensing pesticides
149A-13.5 Pesticide use revolving fund; pesticide training workshops; training fee

149A-14 Refusal, cancellation, or suspension of the license
149A-15 Labeling requirements
149A-15.5 Pesticide information signs
149A-16 Coloration of certain pesticides
149A-17 Sales, permit, and record
149A-18 Denial, suspension, or revocation of permit
149A-19 Determination; rules; uniformity
149A-20 Seizures; "stop-sale" and "removal from sale" orders
149A-21 Enforcement
149A-22 Authority
149A-23 Cooperation

Part III. Pesticide Use

149A-31 Prohibited acts
149A-32 Repealed
149A-32.5 Cancellation or suspension of pesticide uses
149A-33 Rules
149A-34 Denial, suspension, or revocation of certificate
149A-35 Cooperation
149A-36 Authority to inspect
149A-37 Exemptions
149A-38 Repealed

Part IV. Violations, Warning Notice, and Penalties

149A-41 Violations, warning notice, and penalties

Part V. Advisory Committee

149A-51 Advisory committee
Part VI. Miscellaneous Provisions

149A-52 Severability
149A-53 Applicability of chapter 91

BAH ain't lyin. They may represent seedy pesticide/chemical companies who don't give a shit about the health and will only do the bare minimum required, despite what the workers say about letting their kids walk around pesticide laden fields. Yes, the people who work for the corporate masters are decent and honorable. But if you think that board of directors for Dow, Dupont, Basf, and the rest really care about their "neigbhors" well, what can I say? Boss de plane!

Anonymous said...

Are they trying to develop pesticide resistant strains on Kauai? How do you test it? Gotta spray and spray until it dies. And it's not just the westside. As soon as the tourists leave the airport, they're driving right by gmo testing grounds. Welcome to Kauai! Just roll up your windows and blast the AC.

Anonymous said...

where are these studies or statistics that show the people on the west side have a higher rate of cancer, nose bleeds, etc.?

You need to take into consideration lifestyle too people.are the people that are sick smoking, drinking, eating unhealthy foods too? just saying.

Anonymous said...

You. Ought to shut up when you start flinging careless comments about people getting sick on the West side.
They are. And I just found out another friend is sick.

Anonymous said...

Pediatricians are comparing notes and telling each other what they've been observing. The differences are apparent to them, but, some people need to wait until there's an authoritative study. Why err on the side of caution when you can risk the long term health of kids?

Anonymous said...

Because that bottom line is too important to risk and itʻs not a direct proven link, right?

Anonymous said...

And thank you, Governor Abercombie, for making those people on the westside hire attorneys to do what the State has miserably failed to do: protect their health.

Anonymous said...

You can't blame every sickness on the westside on pesticides. You think nobody ever got sick and died there before the GMO fields came?

Even the pediatricians are saying there need to be studies and compile data to see what is happening where.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Dr. Evslin say he used to see more asthma in Hanalei and that he thought there should be less asthma on the Westside because it's dry? Why not err on the side of caution when you're dealing with a community's health?

Anonymous said...

This whole thing is like all of Kauai's Unsolved Murders. I don't see any council member sticking out their necks to find the killer(s) or put a substantial amount of reward money like say 100k for any information leading for tr capture and conviction of these killer(s). We can build multi million dollar bridges, bike paths, parks, and everything else but the county won't spend a CENT on finding the killer(s) on Kauai that are still free to kill anyone of you. PA fake grants and the KPD unwillingness to get a well trained murder team or call Oahu or Feds speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

reposting my posts here since it seems a few should be reading them as your comments are at best, uninformed



Nuff said.


August 7, 2013 at 1:48 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Follow this link after reading this article to a link of other credible, scientific research papers on the subject.

Te evidence is mounting, more and more, each month and each year.

Kaua'i is the GMO industries petie dish.

Think about that carefully. Resistance to regulation shows a lack of respect for your fellow man, while at the same time touting the fact that your industry is going to save mankind.

Some more things to contemplate. Worldwide GMO crop failures will lead to worldwide famine and death.

Is this happening yet? Of course it is. one of the factors is the fact that some GMO crops require twice as much water as others. How is that drought saving, or drought resistant?

Here are some more links regarding this:


This article speaks about "genetic drift', ie the reason why the entire food producing industry for organic farmers and others will be wiped out by GMO processes. I wonder how the workers feel about putting OTHER workers out of work? Or about taking food out of the mouths of Kaua'i residents? Even themselves?


This is the entire work. hTese items I am citing are scholarly works, and not lay public opinion pieces


Why i am citing the India works so much is that it is of course one of the largest population areas on the planet, and has seen the most blatent GMO crop failures, and socioeconomic tragedies directly related to GMO seed practices.

Current use of transgenic herbicide-resistant soybean and corn in the USA
MDK Owen - Crop Protection, 2000 - Elsevier
... 10–27. Tauer and Love (1989); L. Tauer, J. Love; The potential economic impact of
herbicide-resistant corn in the USA J. Prod. ... Turner (1999); M. Turner; How will GMO restrictions
affect corn and soybean exports? ... The niche for herbicide-resistant corn in US agriculture. ...
Cited by 54 Related articles All 4 versions Cite



Now what? Still all gung ho for da GMO?

Or did I just give you your next t shirt slogan?

Anonymous said...

all i'm trying to say is, if you took science in school you should know that there are "controls" and then there are "variables". Pesticides, GMO consumption, and LIFESTYLE, are all variables. I meant no disrespect other than stating the fact that there are OTHER variables in people's lives that can render them sick. I bet if this GMO bill didn't come out you wouldn't be saying its the GMOs/pesticides, you'd find something else to blame it and not even try to consider LIFESTYLE into the mix.

If kids are getting sick, what about the teachers, are they sick too? there keeps being reference to kids and people but if the kids are sick shouldn't the teachers be too, and for the other adults that are sick, WHAT IS THEIR LIFESTYLE LIKE??? Does cancer run in their family, do they smoke, drink, do drugs, eat CRAP food like mcdonalds??? These are ALL variables that you also need to consider in addition to the pesticides and GMOS.

it's simple science what variables are.

Anonymous said...

the following is a link to the National Cancer Institute. It is a searchable database for incidents of cancer by counties which shows Kauai has the lowest of all counties in Hawaii. But that doesn't mean that the Westside doesn't have a higher rate but it is interesting.


Anonymous said...

thank you 11:17AM


Anonymous said...

No fo'get in these islands "fee simple" is TRUMPED by Royal Patents, NATIONAL Patents and Deeds that are all still in place today, no US land grants either... that clearly ='s "Fraud" and 120 years of illegal occupation. Let's be CLEAR and tell the TRUTH... there is NO statute on fraud.