I
recently wrote a post that questioned the current politicized approach to dealing with agricultural pesticides on Kauai, and noted that blood and urine tests can reveal the presence of agricultural chemicals in the body. I asked why none of these tests were being done to offer proof of pesticide exposure from the chem/seed companies.
I received this comment from Pat Gegen, which
I think is worthwhile to share:
Regarding
the testing of the 75 chemicals you referenced - tests are available
to test for specific or groups of chemicals and the metabolites they
produce but they are very costly and not covered by health insurance.
A basic test I am aware of that covers approximately 75% of the
chemicals identified in the Waimea lawsuit used by Pioneer costs over
$750.00. A test to determine the level of glyphosate in a person's
system by it self cost me just under $100.00. Those are large amounts
to spend on testing for individuals.
The doctor who expressed
concerns that some birth defects may be 10 times the national average
and need to be studied was Dr. Raelson who works out of KVMH. This
was based on babies just delivered by himself and a few other
providers on Kauai (study size was approximately 750 births if I
recall correctly) - This does not include folks who may live on the
westside but delivered somewhere else due to higher risk situations.
His letter is in the public realm as it was submitted as testimony
during deliberations of 2491.
I
recognize that lab tests are expensive — though I'm not sure that
none are covered by insurance if a doctor thinks they are needed —
but still, why haven't some of the ant-GMO groups funded even a few
such tests? Hawaii SEED has spent tens of thousands of dollars
bringing speakers here -- money that could've been used to accumulate
some data and give worried families some answers. And what about the
plaintiffs in the case against Pioneer? Hasn't even one family
paid out of their own pocket to find out for sure? I am not saying it
is the responsibility of westsiders to prove they are being poisoned
by pesticides, but still, hasn't even one person checked?
I also
found an "open letter" from Dr. Jim Raelson, which I am reprinting
here so that people can see for themselves what he really said:
Several
people have asked about comments I made regarding birth defects
(specifically cardiac defects) at the meeting we had a couple weeks
ago with Kauai County Council members. I would like to clarify what I
said at that meeting and share my thoughts on the issue. Dr. Chatkupt
and I have for some time commented to each other on what we felt were
an unusual number of certain birth defects in the population
delivering at KVMH. Putting our heads together we seem to have a
cluster of complex congenital heart defects. A few comments though
about that:
1. There is no good data. I have learned that there
has been no active Hawaii Birth Defects surveillance since 2005. In
my verbal phone conversation with the director of the program I
learned that due to administrative issues and the change of the
program from UH to DOH there has been a lapse of the registry. DOH
recognizes this deficiency and importance of having the data and has
started an effort to resurrect data going back to 2005. A very
informative complete report of hawaii birth defects broken down by
year, type, county was published for the years
1986-2005:
but
there is no reliable data after 2005.
The only numbers that Dr.
Chatkupt or I have is from our involvement the last 7 years with most
of the significant cases of birth defects and our recollections. Some
of our mothers deliver in Lihue and some in Oahu; we would not know
about cases we had no clinical involvement. Also many serious birth
defects including cardiac defects result in 1st and 2nd trimester
spontaneous Ab's; which often would not be diagnosed.
2.
Health Events clusters. Like cancer clusters, birth defects clusters
need to have epidemiological evaluation to determine if the observed
unusual incidence in a population is statistically significant or
could occur by statistical chance alone. Because the population of
our westside deliveries is so small I think this would require quite
some time (years) to prove statistical significance. Certainly however
DOH does have responsibility to collect and look at the data and do
the epidemiological studies.
That being said, of particular
concern is the incidence of serious cardiac malformations;
particularly those that result from early embryogenesis defects that
have occured in our population the last three years. We have had 5
major cardiac defects that have required early extensive surgical
repair in San Diego the last 3 years: 2 cases of Transposition of the
Great Vessels, 1 Hypoplastic left heart, 1 Hypoplastic Right heart
with heterotaxy and 1 severe pulmonary stenosis.
The
transposition cases and hypoplasia cases are considered defects that
occur in early first trimester. While cardiac birth defects are the
most common birth defects these particular types of lesions are rare.
Recent CDC statistics puts transposition at 1/3300births, hypoplastic
Left heart at 1/4344 births and hypoplastic right at 1/17000 births.
In the last 3 years we have had about 750 deliveries ; this gives us
an incidence of 53/10,000 births for these 4 defects. National US
data shows an incidence of 5.5/10,000 births, so we have 10 times the
national rate.
Interestingly, the report published for
Hawaii's numbers from 1986 to 2005 showed an overall small downward
trend over these years in total birth defects but with an increasing
trend in transposition of the great vessels and pulmonary
atresia.
The point I tried to make to Council members was that
we don't know for sure if we truly have a problem of true clusters
because it has not been adequately studied but as clinicians we are
seeing suspicious clusters of disease. We also don't know about cause
and effect but if we are seeing a true cluster of a disease that has
been linked to low level exposure by good studies done elsewhere then
that in itself is grounds for real concern that we are seeing serious
health problems. One of the things to advocate for is tfor CDC and
DOH to do the unbiased epidemiology studies and to do bio-monitoring.
As an example CDC recently did a study in central Washington of the
birth defect anencephaly because they were seeing a fourfold increase
in that defect over national data.
So as
I've written before, has anyone, like Gary or the anti-GMO groups,
asked the CDC to do such a study? Instead of pursuing the EPHIS,
which as currently designed will be a highly-politicized and
expensive process unlikely to deliver reliable, respected data, why not ask a qualified outside agency to come in?
Also, if
you take the time to look at the birth defects registry, you will see
that factors such as inadequate pre-natal care, very young
mothers and drug and alcohol use are the most frequent causes of
birth defects in Hawaii. When you consider also that drug overdose —
both prescription and illegal — is the most common cause of accidental death
in Hawaii, is it possible that the ice and oxycontin epidemic in
Hawaii could be playing a role if there is indeed a birth defect
cluster?
Yes, it could be pesticide exposure, but it could be due to other factors, or a combination of things. I've often wondered how many people on the westside have heavy metal poisoning due to the lead paint and arsenic in the canec drywall used in the old plantation homes.
I personally got very, very sick from such exposure while renting an old home in Anahola. I paid out of my own pocket for medical tests that verified high levels of lead and mercury, and also for tests that documented elevated lead levels in my house. As a result of those tests, I got the proper treatment and I moved.
I am not
trying to minimize any real health concerns that are taking place on
the westside or elsewhere. My point is only that we need more
information. I feel it's irresponsible for politicians to be
blaming one possible source and stoking people's fears, without any real
evidence. Responsible politicians and activists would be seeking answers, not
court rulings and media coverage.
36 comments:
I too often wonder why groups like Hawaii-seed who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars printing books and having events wouldn't donate money to the poor families that they so often talk about. Factual tests would give so much more power to the argument. And if they found the chemicals were found in their blood, then they proved contamination and drift beyond a doubt.
That said, if you live anywhere near pesticides and your children are sick, it would be smart to find another place to live and see if the symptoms change.
Some people are far more sensitive to chemicals and pesticides than others.
Are the kids at Island school affected as the GMO fields surround there too? Or is it only the west side that feel the affects of poison? Like princeville poison is sprayed on the golf course for rich people so it's OK and doesn't make us sick?
Testing is expensive.
But DOH, CDC and especially EPA will respond to a claim by an MD.
Remember, these organizations are staffed by by essential watchdogs. And their mindset is to catch evil doers.
Testing is essential for truth.
But wild claims and suppositions that flame emotion and fear are so much more fun and effective in turning out a vote.
Besides, there is an unusually large population of retired Cane workers and families in Waimea and Kekaha, that for generations lived with the dust, spray, runoffs and swam in the 'kukai" ditches that ran near the ocean.
There seems to be an extraordinarily large population of these older folks on the Westside. Maybe some testing can be done on them for cumulative long term effects. Back then the chemicals were stronger and the safety standards were zippo.
Of course these 80 and 90 year olds are pretty active and they may not have time to talk to what they may feel are some niele outsiders trying for tell them how for live.
One thing for sure, most of these kapuna will be voting. And it won't be for Hooser or Bynum. JoAnn will get some because she is a nice young Japanese girl. Talk to the real people who have lived with DDT, mosquito fog jeeps, Bull Durham faucet bags on household water and the other real life impact of big ag controlling all aspects of life.
You might be surprised at how healthy they are.....but they all did eat a lot of fish, have gardens and did exercise.
JoAnn at least the big evil cane growers gave a single family house to the people instead of stuffing them into over cost County apartments.
Thanks again Joan. Pat Gegan, Gary Hooser and Tim Bynum all beat to the same drum. Dr. Jim Raelson is a well respected doctor. His comments are loud and clear that he doesn't have the data to form any conclusions. As usual, Tim and Gary took parts of the doctor's comments out of context and exploited them to their advantage. They are not interested in finding solutions. They are interested in making names for themselves to serve their self interests. Pat Gegan is just an antagonizer. He doesn't care about real facts either. Spin, spin, spin. So easy to do but so detrimental in the pursuit of real solutions. Placing fear in peoples' minds is not being responsible. But that is what they do. They all need to go. Including Pat Gegan.
It sure seems like the Anti's don't want to do the testing as they're scared the findings would undermine their claims.
How do I get in contact with you Joan?
eastsidegrrrl@yahoo.com
Pat Gegen's hypocrisy knows no bounds. While publicly siding with the anti GMO movement for popularity purposes, as a member of zero waste Kauai he peddles and advocates the use of one of the GMO industry's biggest products...biodegradable plastics. Even Tim's plastic bag ban encourages the proliferation of GMO bio plastic bags. Oops I think I just waked up and rised all over their face.
Does anyone else think it's weird that Gary spent all of last year saying the state was inept in handling the Ag and pesticide issues but is about to embark on a crusade that would allow the state to controll all water usage on Kauai? Gary is so ignorant and crooked I don't know how he manages to screw on his pants every morning.
It's really sad how Gary has toyed with the emotions of mothers desperately seeking answers for their children's lives to just leave them high and dry, emotionally drained without any real answers or solutions. And the only thing they can do to fight the boogie man he's created is vote for him in November.
Gary has co-opted the Hawaiian culture, he's massaged, groomed, pet, and embraced the egos of the youth for his own perverse agenda. Fern, Dustin, malia chun, his son, mason, and especially these vulnerable mothers are merely victims of his sexual politics.
Btw, Pat Gegen is married to Marghee Maupin, the nurse practitioner who has leveled many of the accusations.
BTW, Pat Gegen made his fortune on Big Oil before he retired and moved here to bully all of us with his sustainability agenda. Hypocrisy to the max.
it's really sad how people....
Do you have proof of Gegan's former affiliation with big oil? I really woud like to see it.
What Pat Gegen stated about blood tests is common knowledge. But his desire to grand stand with the best, Gary and Tim makes him one of them. And off course his nurse practitioner wife Marghee is not an RN..
Regarding the Zero Waste program, that's a joke. The only way we might reach anywhere close to Zero Waste would be to reinstate the Taylor Camp lifestyle for all people of Kauai. Pat Gegen is just another mainlander trying to exploit whatever he can from the County and Kauai.
So to arbitrarily say we need to close down GMO Ag on Kauai because blood and urine tests are too expensive is ludacris.
Anonymous 2:36 PM said:
it's really sad how people....
...Twist positions of public leadership into opportunities for self-aggrandizement?
...Turn the trust of those who elected them into disdain and contempt?
Yes, and yes.
The next time you see Pat ask him about his "12 years in the energy industry" http://m.thegardenisland.com/news/local/candidate-by-petition-pat-gegen/article_01ae8eb0-637a-11e1-bcd8-001871e3ce6c.html?mode=jqm
In the comment made by the doctor about his and his colleagues' observations of the births on the westside, there was no mention that there are now a good number of women having their babies at KVMH who don't live on the westside. They come from all parts of Kauai. So it seems, at best, that all of this information doesn't mean anything until in depth studies can be performed.
This is another good article Joan. Last session there was a bill at the legislature to mandate doing the Hawaii Birth Defects Registry. Although the bill didn't pass, all hospitals have committed to do this. We will see it they actually do; otherwise you will see introduction of a bill again. It is important to get data according to zip codes.
Thank you for the update, Dee.
From LinkedIn:
Pat Gegen
Rotating Equipment Manager
Flint Hills Resources
April 1996 – August 2007 (11 years 5 months)
Manage 40 pump mechanics and responsible for the reliability and repair of all rotating equipment in the refinery.
After all of the brouhaha and the tearing apart of the community is the truth coming forth and the real questions being asked. The manipulation of emotion overrode all common sense and rational thinking to ever allow a decent fact finding investigation from ever happening. Now everyone is paying the price for all of this all across the state. That is the most unfortunate thing of all of this.
Agree, Most rational people base their decisions on facts and not emotion. Fact finding should have been the first step. I'm glad that Dee Morikawa is taking the lead in starting the process. Kudos to Dee. The Board of Health should also be involved to provide blood tests for any mother on the island having a birth defect.
"Pat Gegen
Rotating Equipment Manager
Flint Hills Resources
April 1996 – August 2007 (11 years 5 months)
Manage 40 pump mechanics and responsible for the reliability and repair of all rotating equipment in the refinery."
Pat, I know you reading this. Please explain.
3:23 said "And off course his nurse practitioner wife Marghee is not an RN."
You must be an RN to be a nurse practitioner.
Its purty f'in' easy to get stats.
There are only 2 insurance companies....and of course, the Welfare system....
Anonymous said...
Pat, I know you reading this. Please explain.
September 14, 2014 at 8:22 AM
Feel free to give me a call or email if you want more information… Not sure what needs to be explained??
psgegen@hotmail.com
808-635-2081
This isn't about Pat. I appreciate his comment and the information he shared.
@9:13 what chemical background does a RN / Nurse Practitioner have in diagnosing any kind of a chemical fault? Again saying it's too expensive to come up with the truth is not a very professional comment.
September 14, 2014 at 12:58 PM
Blogger Joan Conrow said...
This isn't about Pat. I appreciate his comment and the information he shared.
September 14, 2014 at 1:05 PM
way to moderate the discussion, Joan! sometimes the comments are ...a bit unprofessional.
Everything relies on money.
If the County wants air, water, dust etc. testing. Let the County allocate some money for these purposes.
But there is no money. The County is broke. The Council passes a budget, knowing there is no money. It passes bizarre knee jerk tax laws to capture money to break even. The new tax laws hurt people, so the County proposes more knee jerk laws to alleviate the hurt. It is byzantine.
The Council can not even do a simple (yes folks, a budget is easy) budget.
And we the people put our trust in a bunch of nimrods who have difficulty with the simple arithmetic needed in a budget to assess, evaluate and effectuate GMO/Herbicide science?
I know the brainiacs in the anti-Ag movement are smarter than Einstein and to them horizontal gene transfer, molecular cloning, recombinant DNA and other aspects of GMO engineering is simple dimple.
But, Great Fog of Hyperbole Batman, it don't matter what we do. We are all doomed with this Council. And especially with the fearless four of Bynum, Hooser, Chock and Yukimura who have no cents at all. Jay has some sense, but he has lost it for a while.
Tim Bynum possesses super scents.
It is a problem in general where someone offers an idea or a point of view, every hater they ever had sees it as an open invitation to smear the person or their spouse, or their children in the comments. No wonder the pols get so jaded.
@5:19 welcome to the real world. Except for the children. That's a no-no.
It was never like that until the westerners brought their attitude and self righteous style to the islands. The blogs, and deception was also introduced. The locals caught on fast and now have combated attitude with attitude.
Wow Pat, really? I am one of your six step children who have accrued 79K in school loan debt. I could use your help to pay this back with your big oil fortune, which I have just found out you have via this blog! You and I are going to have a talk!
Ok seriously, I am one of his step daughters, and sadly there is no fortune. I've known him for a long time and trust me, there is no ulterior motives or efforts to exploit the marginalized. Oh and my mom IS a RN and an APRN and I'm quite surprised with how interested you all are in either of their history and qualifications. I find them quite boring.
yes, it takes a true sleuth to find something on a person's public linkedin profile page, a true modern sherlock holmes. pat gegen, how dare you have such a scurrilous history of... managing people and putting your free time into community service. to think that gives you a right to have an opinion about your community's future. what nerve!!
The judge said pesticides are the state's responsibility, not the county. What's the state doing?
It doesn't pay to make enemies on Kauai. They eyes of the people are crystal clear.
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