Friday, May 29, 2015

Musings: The Big Hotel

No homestays will be allowed on agricultural land or in guest houses under an ordinance that moves to the full Kauai County Council next week.

The Council's planning committee also endorsed language that requires homeowners to live on site, and imposed a cap that limits the planning department to reviewing 10 applications for 2015 and 2016. 

But many more will be considered initially because planners said they already have “30 [applications] at our door.” 

We'll start counting new applications once that law takes effect,” Planning Director Mike Dahilig said. Property owners with applications already in the works will be given the choice of whether they want to be reviewed under the old or new law, he said.

Is that legal?” Councilwoman JoAnn Yukimura asked.

It's a blend of law and policy – remember you make the law,” said Deputy County Attorney Ian Jung, noting the Council can specify in the ordinance when things take effect.

Deputy Planning Director Kaaina Hull said planners will be recommending the planning commission deny applications that are actually TVRs. But they still have the right to apply under the current law. The new law would stop many of them from applying, though likely not completely weed out the scammers.

We've seen a lot of fakes, and people are creative,” Mike said. “This is a reaction to the creative thinking of people that we have enforced on. This will help us in our enforcement of shutting down these illegal TVRs from cheating the system once and for all.”

Councilman Mel Rapozo said the ordinance needs to honor current laws that prohibit homestays and lock out units on ag land. “We pretend those state laws don't exist, and we worry about the financial hardships” of the operators, he said.

Under the bill approved by the committee, property owners will have to seek a special permit to operate a home stay on ag land, as required by state law.

Only Councilman Gary Hooser voted against the bill, including the amendment that prohibited visitors from staying in guest houses. Mel, however, said the operations should be "self-contained. We don't want to see these multiple structures." Mike supported the amendment, saying the county had experienced problems with TVR owners renting out guest houses separately from the main house, creating a multifamily dwelling.

Gary also argued that the county should be “minimizing or eliminating the financial damage” to people who were running illegal homestays/B&Bs for years and are now shut down pending permit approval. 

But Mike said the county can't legally allow longtime operators to remain open while shutting down those that just opened.

And in response to a question from Councilman KipuKai Kualii about lessons learned from the county's vacation rental law, community advocate Caren Diamond noted, “I think the TVR bill is kind of the laughing stock of the state because we're the only county who took people who were doing illegal uses and gave them priority. And that's exactly opposite how other counties want to do it, and how the state Legislature recommends doing it and we really don't want to see that happen with homestays.”

Councilman Ross Kagawa asked how long homestay permits are valid.

They run with the land,” Mike said.

Forever?” asked Ross.

Yes, forever, just like the TVR permits. They're an extremely valuable entitlement that can significantly increase the value of a property. And have no doubts, many of these are extremely lucrative businesses.

Mel said he checked out one homestay on line, and based on its reservation schedule, it's making $22,000 per month. John Friedman said the six-unit operation next door to him in Waipake has been grossing $40,000 monthly over the last eight years, while operating without a permit. The county's attempt to shut it down has resulted in a protracted legal process.

Gary also contended that the county had given operators “implicit authority to continue just by looking the other way,” and was treating homestay owners differently than TVR owners, who were allowed to keep operating while the county hashed out a law and permitting process.

Mike said the county had considered that, but the reality is “the very first application that came through was a TVR that got shut down.” In other words, taking Gary's approach would allow illegal TVRs to remain open, too.

Mike also disputed claims that the planning department had told homestay operators they didn't need a permit, attributing it to confusion that arose in the wake of the TVR law, where both finance and planning were reviewing applications

We have always been consistent in saying homestays require a use permit,” Mike said, noting that some people may have been told they didn't need to go through the TVR nonconforming use process , and interpreted that as they didn't need any permit.

Kaaina also explained how the department came up with a cap of 10 applications, saying the commission typically reviews about 20 use permits per year, so 10 homestay use permits seemed about the maximum that could be handled without overwhelming commissioners or the department.

About 100 homestays/B&Bs were identified in the state Department of Business and Economic Development census, planners said. But no one knows how many are actually operating on Kauai, where some websites advertise up to 1,700 home-based visitor accommodations, most of them unpermitted.

Though planners said a law is needed now to stymie the flood of illegal TVRs trying to game the system, Councilwoman JoAnn Yukimura said she thought it was “problematic” to “give permanent rights” without a more comprehensive law in place. Planners are viewing the ordinance before the Council as an interim measure, while it works out additional regulations. 

Both Gary and JoAnn questioned whether B&Bs were a nuisance, with JoAnn saying the burden was on planners to show that people had complained about these uses.

Kristin Zimmerman told the Council that it needed to think about how the mushrooming home stay/TVR industry is affecting longterm housing for young people on the island, many of whom are living at home because they can't find rentals.

"We are basically Kauai the big hotel," she said. "Open your eyes to it. Thank goodness he's [Dahilig] giving some cease and desist orders."

60 comments:

Anonymous said...

If they want to shut down these illegal operations they should take a lesson from the feds and go after them for tax evasion. If that $40k/month operation is not sending in about $5200/month to the state then they are evading taxes. With that many guests it would not be hard to find a few confirmed stays and prove evasion.

John Friedman said...

Thank You Joan,
I do want to correct the statement I made during the Committee meeting yesterday. Although there are a number of illegal TVR's asking, and getting, $1,500/night for their rental homes, our neighbor is asking about $800/night. Their availability calendar for this coming August indicates 100% occupancy or $24,000/month. I stand by my statement that these types of operations are commercial and "big business"!

Anonymous said...

"...remember you make the law,” said Deputy County Attorney Ian Jung, noting the Council..." has made laws in the past that the courts have overturned.

Anonymous said...

"Kristin Zimmerman told the Council that it needed to think about how the mushrooming home stay/TVR industry is affecting longterm housing for young people on the island, many of whom are living at home because they can't find rentals."

As stated here before by others, if B&B's and TVR's were abolished entirely, it wouldn't make these properties affordable to those people living with their parents. Small minds are always looking for someone else to blame for their own circumstances. Here, our circumstances are that Kauai is a beautiful place to live and visit and the world (including Hollywood, Pro Athletes, DotComers and Rock Stars) has discovered us...a world full of people far wealthier than us and who can out-bid most locals on a purchase or long-term rental. Sorry peoples but it's a fact of life when living in a highly desirable locale. Kauai is fast becoming the land of the wealthy retiree (former tourist) who buys up the limited housing, doesn't care one bit about jobs for working folks and are all about closing the drawbridge. Look in the mirror!

Anonymous said...

Dear 8:51
What planet are you from? This article and comments that follow are referencing rentals that cater to high end clientele however B&Bs and TVR's cater to all tastes and budgets. Go on AirBnB and see the extra room rented for $30 a night or the numerous studios at the $100 a night range. These are not high end rentals and would be getting $700-900 a month if they were available for long term rent. You should be embarrassed by the self serving B.S. that you consistently spew in the comments section. I've read countless comments by like minded individuals bashing Sam Lee for sticking up for his neighborhood, is Sam Lee small minded by your logic? I grew up here, have a college degree and own a home and realize that Kauai will always be changing. However your vision of the future and mine are much different and that doesn't make me or anyone else that doesn't share your lust for endless visitor accommodation "small-minded."

Sam Lee said...

thank you 11:07

From the very beginning we've said, we're not against TVRs or BnBs, providing they are located on properly zoned land. But then we hear, our guests are not attracted to resorts or alternative rentals in VDAs, because they resemble Disneyland. What our guests really want is to stay amongst residents or on farms so they can experience the real Kauai.

Well, when TVRs were a new phenomenon on the South shore, we sat by and silently watched a handful morph into 27 in the small area where we live. There was no control no limit, no effort towards moderation, only more is better. Hadn't the County finally stepped in, our neighborhood would no longer exist. At 50% saturation, we are the poster child for what should never have been allowed to happen outside the VDA. When BnBs came up, we said, hey , we better get involved or suffer the consequences of indifference.

We understand the value of tourism to our island, however, when in the name of tourism, visitor rentals infringe on where residents live or farm for a living, a line has to be drawn.

Sadly, Sam

Anonymous said...

11:07 You are embarrassing. The AirBnB's are mostly renting out rooms. How many locals would want to rent a room long term from these people? Ah...none! Locals want their own house but the houses they see on VRBO, etc. are newly built beauties that few boat hands and cocktail waitresses can afford. As people have so often maintained here, they don't even want Yukimura's apartments. Local folks spent decades wanting to leave the plantations which provided the communities and low-rent housing locals now covet and wish they could crawl back into. But they can't because plantation-style agriculture is dead and the transplants that have come here in droves to live are able to pay more to rent a place or buy it. If you grew up here (not B&R claimant I see), then you should be aware of this or maybe you missed the Awareness 101 class in college. But quite possibly it is your fanatical politics that cloud your vision. I was merely stating now what I desire, but what IS. There's a huge difference there. Back to night school 11:07 to learn reading comprehension. Try to not read in your own ideologies, i.e. words, into other people's comments (mouths). Sheesh! This is why fanaticism only hurts the fanatics ability to reason and observe impartially.

Anonymous said...

Yes and what of all those hotel rooms that were built? They were built on prime ocean front land, on top of our iwi kūpuna. Keep the majority in the VDA.

Anonymous said...

Watching that hearing on the websure made me mad. Ya know Gary is not amusing, first he wants only food that is eaten here to be grown on agriculture land, then he wants to grow the tourist biz on agriculture lands.Gary and JoAnn were disappointing, maybe pathetic is a better word. Everyone wants to know if JoAnn had a lobatomy?

Anonymous said...



Mahalo, 11:07

Joan Conrow said...

I looked on AirBnB at the first 112 rentals on Kauai -- just 24 (less than a quarter) were private rooms. Many were small cottages or whole houses that could indeed be in the longterm rental market. If the county cracks down on unpermitted B&Bs and TVRs, at least some of this inventory will return to the longterm market, because the owners would rather get something than nothing. But right now, by renting illegally to visitors, they're getting top dollar and have no incentive to rent to residents. Also, I recall seeing many ads in TGI over the years by people looking for roommates to share their house or rent a room. Now these are being rented to visitors instead, squeezing the longterm market even more.

Anonymous said...

U guys want affordable long term rentals?!! Lower the GD taxes!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

This is the garden island. Residents and tourists enjoy the locally grown produce at the farmer's markets. There are farm/home stays over the world which help supplement small farmer's income. On Kauai using Waipake as an example some ag land gets bought up by a developer then CPR'd and sold mostly to wealthy newcomers who do not farm and do not want a farm environment in their neighborhood. There are only a few small farms on Waipake ag land now. Relators like John Friedman and Kristen Zimmerman do not want farms, BnB's or TVR's because it brings property values down and they want to cater to wealthy clientele who want to purchase estates in a neighborhood full of other estates. Visitors stay at alternative accommodations because they want to experience something other than resort accommodations and enjoy the aloha spirit that homestay owners personally share. All of the revenue flow from alternative accommodations that are operated by residents stays on Kauai and for farmers it may supplement their income so that they may keep farming. Not allowing home stays on ag land would only encourage more ag land to be used as estates for the wealthy and more resorts to be built to supply the tourist demand. Mel's background as police officer causes some black and white pictures of strict control and laws. The planning department should have some authority to handle complaints, however our elected officials should have the vision of Kauai as The Garden Isle with Aloha Spirit which prompts reasonable solutions to perpetuate that vision and support local farmers.

Anonymous said...

Watched the meeting on TV. Gary is a hypocrite. His sole mission is to target seed companies. He pretends to care about ag, but has no problem pushing for TVRs and B&Bs on ag land. Come on Gary, get a grip. You speak through two sides of your mouth. Then you say that it's unfair to stop the operators after they've relied on their income for years. Where is your concern for the local jobs on the west side? To say that you are concerned about people's incomes and jobs is an outright lie.

Joan Conrow said...

Gary is catering to his donor base -- haoles, nonfarmers on ag land and the real estate industry.

Anonymous said...

Whether you are for Bnbs or not, it is clear the County is using preferential enforcement. There are full blow violations of building, uses, parking, signage, etc in every town on the island.
Another question, the Council says the "enforcement" didn't come from them as they are legally prohibited from ordering the Department Heads to perform duties (another joke).
So who told the power hungry Mike Dahlig to spend huge money, create a social upheaval and effect thousands of people....all with a stroke from his pen or words from his mouth.
If A Department Head can act alone, we are doomed. The Counties Rules and Regs are difficult to understand, up to interpretation and in the BnB case..totally confusing. Just because they have addressed this BnB issue today, doesn't mean that the same Planning Department hasn't given tacit approval for decades for the same BnB uses.
I am against BnBs, but I really against Government over reach and incompetence.
AND NOW, this same Planner wants to rejuvenate Rice Street with Tax payer Money....might as well try to resurrect Jesus.....Rice Street is dead. Puhi is happening. No revival without food and vitality....like Kapaa did ...by the efforts of small business owners. Used to be Kapaa was a no no....now Lihue is a blight.

Joan Conrow said...

So who told the power hungry Mike Dahlig to spend huge money, create a social upheaval and effect thousands of people....all with a stroke from his pen or words from his mouth.

The County Council did, when it directed the planning department to go after the "low hanging fruit" of illegal TVRs after it declined to pursue an independent investigation of the department to clean up the mess of the improperly granted TVR permits.

Anonymous said...

The Feds, state and county should go after the illegal TVR's/B&B's/Homestays that weren't paying taxes.

These white collar criminals need to be made as an example to the corrupt politics on Kauai.

The Wild Wild west of the pacific (Kauai) is an example of such beauty turning into a beast.

Anonymous said...

@Joan

You say that if these rentals are shut down than maybe some of them will be returned to the long term rental market. You do realize that having a lock out in a single family dwelling or even renting out a guest house is technically illegal or at least not in compliance with our county rules. The planning department rules for building a guest house says it is only to be used for non paying guest - so you technically are not even allowed to offer it as a affordable rental, and our most of our residential lots and neighborhoods are zoned for SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES not for lock outs or roommates. So your plan to provide affordable rentals is actually also breaking current law in most situations. You would need to be zoned as a multi-family or a ADU (not guest house) to qualify for a legal rental, which when you start looking for these there are not many permitted or zoned correctly. I think its time to look at the whole situation and not making cookie cutter rules that really don't help our actual problem. Its like saying I don't mind if you break rules as long as its not a rule I care about.

Joan Conrow said...

Yes, I do understand the rule on renting guest houses, which are not supposed to have kitchens and thus are not really appropriate for long-term rentals. Not all stand alone cottages are guest houses; some could be ADUs. And people can have roommates without creating a lockout or breaking the law. However, I do agree it's time to look at the whole situation, though I also support passing the B&B ordinance now to stop illegal TVRs from trying to get approved.

Anonymous said...

Aloha 5:16am.
I would like to nominate you for most ridiculous comment of the year! "Bnb's or TVRs bring property values down..." That's a good one, please continue to share your enlightened knowledge and aloha spirit with us all.

Anonymous said...

Hope our County Council consults our County Attorney before hastily supporting anything that could cost the County's already strapped budget more from civil rights or other lawsuits by owners/residents who have been tax paying entrepreneurs depending on alternative accommodation income and did not have permits because there was none available. It seems that the alternative accommodation owners are being blamed and called scammers when it is not known if they are running legitimately paying taxes and did not have a permit because it was not available and have been depending on that income for living, some of them for years. It seems the County Council and planning department's recent actions have not taken responsibility for the blunder of delayed attention to this issue. The actions show no aloha for either the individual residents who have been depending on their alternative accommodation income and have tried to be legitimate and may or may not have complaints filed against them, nor the people who had reservations at cease and desist destinations and must now view Kauai without Aloha accordingly. I for one am taking note of our elected officials and will support those that have the broad picture in mind. If the alternative accommodations means less resorts on prime beach front and more farmers staying in business and they are paying all taxes and have no complaints, then why target them with such harsh means while deciding what to do now?

Anonymous said...

Maybe the permits should not run with the land because say if a home stay operator was present and conducted business on a professional level not receiving complaints and sold to a new owner where that was not the case what then? Maybe the value of the property should not be higher because of a permit, the new owner should have to get a new permit.

Anonymous said...

The majority of home stay owners are NOT wealthy individuals who afforded to recently purchase property on Kauai. Home stay owners are probably mostly people who need to supplement income to afford to live here. By ending that option, many might need to sell in which case would probably not be purchased by anyone who would offer affordable housing or rooms to current residents. It would just drive the housing/real estate market higher and less affordable for locals AND end up with more resorts. I agree that our elected officials should be working for the people and not just the squeaky wheels that like to complain.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Joan for supporting looking at the whole situation. Sometimes we may get bogged down by only looking at our computers instead of looking at the broad perspective of the situation and feelings and aloha for people, residents especially, and the broad outcome of hastily thought out plans which seem to be brewing. This is an important and delicate situation that maybe needs an organizational change solution and maybe an organizational change or other expert should be called in before the County incurs undesirable additional cost consequences for hastily made decisions.

Anonymous said...

To the comment that bnbs and tvrs bring property values down: I was referring to ag lots converted to CPRs like Pooku and Waipake where wealthy individuals that want estates are the real estate customer. Residential zoned property real estate may not be the same and residential zoned owners are probably affected more by this use in their neighborhoods and potential buyers may pay more for the run with the land permit option. Therefore it is even more important that this be looked at on a much broader perspective.

Anonymous said...

I recently spent a month island hopping looking at different housing nd job situations. On Oahu it is a free for all I saw no controls anywhere and airBnB i saw people offering 30 dollars nite for a futon in the parlor floor and almost everyone there seems to sublease have roommates lockouts there are all kind of tall buildings there and people from the looks of things lie in tiny brick boxes in public housing in dangerous looking neighborhoods. I was able to visit public housing,hostels, condominiums, homes and a mansion or two when I was there.It was nuts. This is what you get when you let people run over everyone.Tourism? You get Waikiki. Maui was much better but lot more BnB, but I have to say per capita our island is overrun with places for tourists and not enough for regular working class.On Oahu and Maui thinks seem more confined to specific areas, and i saw far more hostels in Oahu and Maui. Here we have 2. I stayed in one in Waikiki that was a block from the beach for 35 a nite and I didn't have to crap in a bucket. We got free pbandj sandwich and coffee in the morning, a bigscreen tv that everyone shared and full kitchen in every room. And it was legal, in a legal VDA area.

Kauai has two hostels with only a few rooms each none for the hostels I have seen are in resident areas. Hotels are in hotel destinations VDA. Neighborhood filled with people renting a room sleeping on the floor ect, but they are the working class.

Here on Kauai we do not seem to care about our people crowded 20 deep into local housing 7 year waiting list for public housing, and no way to afford even affordable.

The more people that drive up poverty values it increases our median income range which raises the limits higher for so called affordable housing and hurts us for federal funding for public housing schools and hospitals because on paper we look to rich and so do not qualify for the help we so badly need.

When plantations came they had to build housing for the workers. If the GMO companies had built housing for the workers that would have been great. We had to pas a law to let farm workers out of tents and into housing here. No they put tourist in the tents and live them a bucket.When Princeville was built we said housing for workers. We had it and it worked hen after the hurricane everyone got the right to do timeshare all of the timeshare units were once for the working people to rent and live in. There has been not enough very low and low income housing ever built since.

Then that wasn't goo enough so now, Vacation Rentals. Not good enough,after building all of the hotel. Now B and B and now lockouts short term rentals.

Gee where in the effin hell are all of those kids that grad last nite going to live? Obviously no one cares as long as the food is served the beds are made and the lawn is cut. Frick even in the deep south as back ass backwards racist stupid as they were they still realized the slaves needed housing. Cuz god forbid they could live up in da big house. Unless they were the house servants. That was an awful time of history. I feel though that we are close to being slaves here. I know it is not the same so don't start that. But it feels like it. We feel owned by these people who come here take the land the housing and tell us to shut up and do what we are told while they take everything and make us work for them, earning wgaes that can't support us.

Do i feel like it is this way here right now? yes I do!!! And it is very wrong.
Thanks rich people!

Anonymous said...

No permits should run with he land that is ridiculous I will actively be vigorously and vehemently opposing that for sure!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"Both Gary and JoAnn questioned whether B&Bs were a nuisance, with JoAnn saying the burden was on planners to show that people had complained about these uses."

This is why we have the problem in the first place. Politicians catering to their friends, the realtors. JoAnn seemed friendly with some of these "homestay" operators. Does she have a conflict voting on this law?

Anonymous said...

Aloha 10:53AM
"To the comment that bnbs and tvrs bring property values down: I was referring to ag lots converted to CPRs like Pooku and Waipake where wealthy individuals that want estates are the real estate customer."
So increasing density decreases property values? Another question do the properties with non conforming TVR use certificates also experience decreased property values? I just went on VRBO and did a search for Kilauea starting with the most expensive properties. First property on Kauapea $42,000 per week, 5th property in Seacliff $11,760 per week. These are ag lots, is the rental income decreasing the value of these properties? If so, how?

Anonymous said...

friendly? more like fawning ! no doubt whose asses she was kissing , with gary trying to get in a smooch every so often. she asked lots of questions, hours worth actually. but never did she ask, ARE YOU LEGAL? DO YOU HAVE A PERMIT ? A-FUCKING-MAZING. from an attorney, no less.

Anonymous said...

9:15
you gotta be haole. know how I know ? because only haoles so quick to use the SUE word. A few other words haoles DON'T KNOW ARE, STOP, ILLEGAL, PERMIT. you got complaints? tell em to the judge.

Anonymous said...

Anyone in here actually have a TVR or Homestay in operation right now? Anyone in here being shut down themselves? Anyone in here a Haole? How about a racist? Anyone in here hate Haoles? How about the other way around. Hate locals? Have trouble smiling? Always looking at the negative side of things? Good you'll fit right in here. As a TVR owner myself, legal I might add, I find all this amusing, frightening, irresponsible, angering, frustration and ultimately uninformed personal attacks and heresay. It's some sick attraction I have to reading nonsense from ignorant people. All you pretend policy makers. Let's get one thing straight shall we girls? Everything happening to our real estate market here is being caused by supply and demand as well as a rapidly heating real estate market. Those big players like Facebook guy, all the actors who have their own little clique of in house moneybags so they are buying and selling to each other now. Doubling the money they invested in the past few years. Now that is where things are going off track. Couple that with antiquated and unfair tax laws based on asessed valuations based on compareable sales and we have a recipe for worse to come. I have operated a legal TVR operation for about 20 years now. It's never been harder to keep them going if that is your sole source of income. The county, state and Feds take more and more each year and the costs and taxes go up like clockwork. Come on now folks open up those sleepy eyes and dust the sand out of your ears from having your heads in holes of it. TVR's do not do much as far as property values and rents go compared to sales. And right now sales are how. By the way a legal TVR licsense is worth about $500,000 alone on an appraisal now. All sounds goo yeah? Wrong. The reality is that the county is inept and greedy. Not professional and fair. So everyone is squabbling over blah blah blah ...meanwhile thee movie stars buy and sell driving up prices, the county greedily lets development go rampant again and you people, blind as bats and squabbling over such trivial meaningless stuff. Try laws that limit tax increases as well as property markups in sales. You should be actually scared of the stuff on the books for the north shore right now. Approved and just being prepared to start. No kiddies the writing is on the wall and you people are just to backward to even see whats really happening around you. I see a lot of projecting being done in here. I have felt underlying racism but this time it's spewed out like some sort of bile by ms 9:15 Ignorance is truly bliss in here. Meanwhile Conrow squeals with delight at stirring up this foul stew of angry, biased, racist dissatisfied and frustrated have nots grumbling. If you had it you would grumble too. At the costs of owning and keeping a TVR. I don't want to hear anyone jump on me having one like im the enemy. I just really think you folks need to get proactive and try to talk consciously in a positive manner. Ha...thats a joke yeah? TVRs are not doing all that much to housing compared to all the increases going on around you blind bats with your heads in the sand. Who gives a shit what Gary did wrong today. I mean really now...Isn't that a bit passe at this point girls?

cwm said...

As profitable as these things are, I think the permits should be time limited (say for 10 years), limited to 1 term per resident lifetime, and distributed by lottery. That way the profit is spread around the island, instead of being dumped entirely on those few people willing to flout the law who get grandfathered in.

Those people who currently run BnBs should be granted partial permits with time limits adjusted for prior activity. If you've already run a BnB for more than 10 years, you only get 2 more years of permit time.

I think it's absurd that people who intentionally broke the law are being allowed to profit the most, while simultaneously locking out those who did the right thing. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Anonymous said...

There are many factors that add to the rising cost of owning or living in a home here. Certainly we must recognize that the value of a commercial permit that runs with the land by law adds significanty to that price. Then there is the simple thing of living without tourists everywhere. The entire island should not be for tourists.
Peace, Haole boy

Dawson said...


11:58 PM wrote:
"Haole racist hate locals frightening irresponsible sick ignorant actors buying each other heads in holes sounds Wrong inept greedy Not professional and blah blah blah blind as bats scared racism spewed with delight of foul angry, biased, racist jump on me Who gives a shit"

Edited for clarity.

Anonymous said...

11:58
Girls? Sexist, much?

Anonymous said...

Change the law so BnB and TVR "uses" do NOT run with the land.
Everything is simple. The Council can do anything thay want. Thay make the laws.
Mike Dahlig can use words like "we can couch it like this" really "couch"? How about the Council changing the law period.
Tell the Planner, no more money for you folks, you are on wild goose chases,
All of the Planning Commission Meetings, General Plans and Community Recommendations mean ZERO....the Council can change law, remove law, remove money, on any Law on the book, At anytime.
This Council or the next....it is completely up to them...even if they try to "couch" their votes based on "community and Planners input"....there NEVER was a clear law, no enforcement and tacit approval by ALLL County agencies, prop tax, building, Planning, Water, Engineering....every department knew these uses were being built, operated and managed....a huge discrepancy in the application of law ans preferential enforcement.....do not let the Council fool you....thay have the power.....And Joan, TECHNICALLY The Planning Department CAN NOT take orders from the Council...only the Administration....separation of powers Li' dat.
I don't got no BnB, but I care about a bamboozled Council and a Planning Department that chooses who to screw over at will....maybe Hanamaulu's illegal mega-additions will be next....maybe the height of your fence, oh wait, no fence permit? you need one. There are enough rules and laws that we can all be fiddled with by our Government.

Anonymous said...

Here's a countervailing view from 11:58 PM's . I couldn't give an rat's butt what race the TVR/B&B/Homestay operator is; from what we can tell most of them seem to be be white. So what? The January 2015 Hawaii Business magazine has a short treatment on what has happened to Kailua in the last five years. The City and County of Honolulu was asleep at the switch and a major bedroom community where I lived as a child in the fifties metamorphised into a gilded tourist ghetto while TVR’s and B&B’s blossomed like poisonous toadstools in a pasture after warm spell and rain. Kailua is now overrun by visitors and is a 24/7 fancy flophouse. It’s so bad the C&C Honolulu had to legislate to recover Kailua Beach Park from commercial operators so its citizens could use it. For those of you who think it’s mom and pop trying to cushion their golden years, it’s more likely to be opportunists buying (or converting existing houses) to visitor use more cheaply in residential areas than in visitor areas and parlaying their investment into tidy returns in the face of loose enforcement and complacent neighbors. The same is going on here where property price inflation has been exacerbated by the inflated returns of scofflaw operations in areas not zoned for these commercial mini motels. If you do not think a perpetual entitlement to a fancy income stream doesn’t affect real estate prices, take Economics 101 over. Now that the county is starting to enforce, all manner of squealing rises from people who are sophisticated enough to read a DROA or a Farm Dwelling Agreement or state agricultural land use statutes and decided to roll the dice on illegal TVR’s and B&B’s. Whose fault is the effort to stop this, and why should these people be grandfathered in - for mining the legal and enforcement seams, for cheating, for flouting the law, for cashing in on large private and state funded advertising budgets drawing tourists, for misrepresenting the Hawaiian culture, for degrading the fabric of residential neighborhoods? Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Is it really worth having these folks plying their trade in all our neighborhoods? I think not. I’d rather they cease and desist or sell out and take their money to a ruined Kailua (minus grandfathered permanent entitlement to an illicit cash cow). Many if not most of them have already had a good and undeserved run. It is time to stem this tide, and a public has a right to the exercise of police powers of the CZO in their defense.

Anonymous said...

whew 7:32

you said a mouth full and it hits the bulls eye. this sums it all up! hope the council and mayor read this.

thanks

Anonymous said...

The County needs a whole new CZO. Plain and simple. Montgomery County Maryland did this recently. They realized piecemeal fixes were not working. It took over a year of hard work and now they have a model zoning code with digital online maps. The new law protected some areas more, but t also expanded mixed use (commercial and residential) because people prefer mixed use and it has a lower carbon footprint.

http://www.montgomeryplanning.org/development/zoning/

Anonymous said...


Thanks 7:18 and the other "boy" who keep bringing up the massive amounts of illegal Transient Vacation Rentals in Hanamaulu.
If it really bothers you that much....I suggest you move there and immediately start turning in your lawbreaking neighbors....

Anonymous said...

who prefers mixed use ? not the residents. we don't need a new CZO, just people who live by the one we got.

Anonymous said...

on life time permits.

what happens when joeblow sells his his house/ bnb permit to a guy living in chicago ? feels like a can of worms to me.

Anonymous said...

7:32

Exceedingly well put, Thank You.

Anonymous said...

"who prefers mixed use ? not the residents" STFU with your typical knee jerk anti everything.
Who are you speaking for? Every zoning study, everywhere, shows vast majority prefer living with mixed use zoning which creates less suburban sprawl and more protection of ag land for the farmers.


Anonymous said...

Quit the racial comments. It's not about race, but financial class.

Anonymous said...

we dare you to run a survey. mixed use vs separated use. this is kauai, pal. not everywhere. you don't own a BnB do you?

Anonymous said...

We? No, its just you typing. The use of "we" to make yourself seem more powerful might suggest a bit of schizophrenia.
Try google "smart growth."
Virtually all modern planning theory is about getting people out of their cars and walking for things like groceries and daily errands after work. The idea is that it is better for you and the environment if you walk a few blocks instead of drive a few miles when you need something like milk or flour. It has nothing to do with B&Bs, although they are often part of mixed use neighborhoods. People who live in mixed use zoning have a 60% lower carbon footprint. They don't clog the roads with cars. They score higher on happiness tests. New housing developments should be near or in town centers. Rice street and Planning Department's vision for that area is a good start. The idea came after much study that is far more scientific that polling you and your friends.
Want to stop B&B's? Too late. Council is already doing it.

Here is how modern planner view mixed use versus separate use: https://www.planning.org/pas/quicknotes/pdf/QN6.pdf

"There was a time when single-use zoning served a vital purpose. Before zoning, industrial and waste-generating land uses were a major nuisance for nearby residential and commercial areas, sometimes even threatening public health. But today, as our economy continues on a path of rapid deindustrialization, we are finding that a system developed early in the last century
cannot meet the needs of our changing communities. Strict segregation of land uses continues to stand in the way of developing modern, mixed use neighborhoods and districts that foster both environmental sustainability and a sense of community."

Anonymous said...

you really can't take somme other place and decide its policies should work for here too, we have what's called zoning for good reason.I find it appalling that some people want tourists everywhere. In the bargain of developement across the state, we did not want to be like Molokai and have no development, but we don't want unfettered develoment everywhere either.

Anonymous said...

9:45

if "it has nothing to do with BnBs " only about "smart growth", you're posting in the wrong place.

Anonymous said...

mixed use? like kakaako? foster environmental sustainability and sense of community? you kidding?

Manawai said...

May 31, 2015 at 9:45 PM - You said it right, but I'll elaborate...
Mixed use is like the old plantation camps that had a store for most necessities. It's like other smaller Kauai communities, Lawai for instance that has housing, a post office and a general store that residents can walk to. Mixed-use development is actually what everyone wants. Small neighborly communities. The problem is that what most people don't want is more development and more loss of ag, or better, open land around them.

Anonymous said...

small NEIGHBORLY communities. YES !

Anonymous said...

I'm familiar with what the county is proposing in Lihue and mixed-use development won't look like Lawai. Small neighborly communities would be awesome. I'm just not sure that people picturing Lawai paints an accurate picture.

Anonymous said...

agree 7:32 with your "small NEIGHBORLY communities, YES !" post. lets accent the word NEIGHBORLY, by saying no to TVRS and BnBs, who do nothing for neighborly neighborhoods.

Anonymous said...

can someone explain why TVR and BNB permits "run with the land" forever? Is it a law thing, State or County? if it is, the law should be changed. when a non conforming use is allowed in an area (think TVR/BnB in residential or AG zone) where it would otherwise not be allowed, its crazy to give permits for life. at the most, the life of the permit should be annual, upon renewal, only. common sense. why enrich the greedy? another slap to the common folk.

Anonymous said...

It's in the U.S. constitution!

Anonymous said...

"I looked on AirBnB at the first 112 rentals on Kauai -- just 24 (less than a quarter) were private rooms. Many were small cottages or whole houses that could indeed be in the longterm rental market. If the county cracks down on unpermitted B&Bs and TVRs, at least some of this inventory will return to the longterm market, because the owners would rather get something than nothing. But right now, by renting illegally to visitors, they're getting top dollar and have no incentive to rent to residents. Also, I recall seeing many ads in TGI over the years by people looking for roommates to share their house or rent a room. Now these are being rented to visitors instead, squeezing the longterm market even more." Joan Conrow
___________________________________
AGREED 100%. I cannot understand why the county has no teeth and cannot shut these open and obvious illegal B&Bs.

Anonymous said...

no balls