Wednesday, August 26, 2015

Musings: Fact and Fiction

In following up on Terry Lilley's claim that military jets were dumping chemicals on school children in Kapaa, I asked Capt. Bruce Hay, commander at PMRF, to shed some light on the aircraft that were seen and their activities. 
Capt. Hay replied:

The aircraft is a P-3C Orion based on Oahu at Marine Corps Base Hawaii (formerly known as Kaneohe Bay MCAS). It is attached to Patrol Wing 2. When they are over here they sometimes conduct instrument approach training at Lihue. We do not have all the modes that the P-3 is capable of using. The aircraft is old, and the engines smoke. There are many reasons they are rapidly being replaced by the Boeing P-8 Poseidon.

The stinger on the back of the aircraft is called a magnetic anomaly detector boom. It is solid with no fluid or exhaust capability. It is hard to tell from the photo but my guess is that the crew was doing multiple approaches. In the pattern, air traffic control directs their flight path and if they were indeed over Kapa'a, it was a sequencing spacer for either inbound or outbound traffic.

What, no “brown chemicals?” Not even any chem trails? No super secret mission to poison Kauai kids? Just boring instrument approach training in old, smokey planes?

Come on, Captain. You're not gonna attract an Instagram or Facebook following like the island's best self-promoting cranks with those dull explanations. Got to juice it up a bit, engage in some wild speculation and “creative” thinking — aka, fiction-writing.
I also asked Capt. Hay about Terry's contention that the military is testing microwave weapons on Kauai, and has some 14 microwave towers "as far as we know" from Kalalau to Anahola. Curiously, Terry claims that one is located at Lihue Airport:

These towers are in restricted air space so you cannot fly over them and take pics or count any new ones. We get the data about these towers from NASA because the towers effect air travel. They can cause an airplane to go down quite quickly.”

Gee. Wouldn't that would create kind of a conflict with all the public and private airplane and helicopter traffic at Lihue Airport?

Terry goes on to claim:

The microwaves are used by the military to dis able the electronics of a bomb, missile, all the way to a computer in China or a satellite in space. This is why the US military is producing so many microwaves in Kauai. We are the production island for world wide microwave war!

Wow. Ground zero for experimental pesticides and microwave war. It's amazing anyone is still left alive, much less happy and healthy, in this hellhole that attracts a million visitors annually. 

But if the microwaves can disable a bomb in China, why is PMRF bothering with that expensive “star wars” missile program? I mean, wouldn't the bombs be disabled by the microwaves before the missile has to be shot out of the sky? Probably best not to think too critically about such things.

According to Terry:

The problem is that the military did not test ahead of time the effects to the reefs, marine life, birds and people that are near the "death towers".

Mmm, so why does PMRF have some of the most abundant wildlife on Kauai, including 300 green sea turtle hatchlings this year?

Terry goes on (and on and on):

The military personnel are warned to stay over 2,800 feet away from the microwave towers while they are beaming and the war ships that are concentrating the microwaves.

Gosh, it must be tough to operate those big war ships and microwave towers from half a mile away. Do you suppose they're using aliens? Or maybe those folks who had their DNA altered by eating GMOs.

Anyway, I know it's hard to believe the actual base commander over a stellar, super-reliable source like Terry, but here's Capt. Hay's response, just for the hell of it:

We only have equipment at Makaha Ridge and Kokee. Anything else on island belongs to someone else. And, our equipment is only on when needed for training or a mission. Electricity is too expensive to leave it on all the time.  Most radars operate in a range that is considered microwaves as do cordless phones, cellphones and some wifi.  For that energy to do what Terry suggests, we'd have to assume transmissivity from air to water was happening and that the same energy could somehow make it through solid rock or bend towards the ground.  There is a reason your car radio stops working in a tunnel.

Oh, Captain. Why must you poke logical holes in a perfectly good fear-mongering strategy? You're no fun at all.
Terry Lilley showing his respect for marine life, which loves to be defaced and cuddled.
Meanwhile, in response to a reader's request, here is a link to Allan Parachini's critique of Christopher Pala's dangerously inaccurate article on Kauai seed fields — “Pesticides in Paradise” — published in The Guardian with still no corrections (or better yet, a full retraction) made. The Fund for Investigative Journalism, which funded Pala's trip to Hawaii, ostensibly for “research,” also has failed to respond to emails from Allan and me about the errors in Pala's piece. FIJ typically awards grants of $5,000, which is pretty good pay for a work of fiction.

And another reader sent me a link to an article about a Texas family that put its home up for sale after they were cited for barking dogs following a neighbor's complaints. It included the comment:

wonder if we could put up something similar to call out grumblers
It made me think of the letter from Sandra Makuaole of Waimea, who said she and her husband regularly hosed down their own dogs whenever they barked. And boy, that sure learned them. 

I mentioned this to a certified dog trainer, who raised her eyebrows and replied, “People are always saying how much they love their dogs and then they punish them all night and all day.”

The barking dog ordinance may have made some humans feel better, but in the end, it's always the dogs who suffer the most. Good riddance to that bad bill. 

Oh, and Council Chair Mel Rapozo, if you do decide to write a comprehensive noise ordinance, don't forget all those fighting roosters. Can't wait to see the public hearing on that one!

62 comments:

Chuck Lasker said...

It used to be apocalyptic nutcases walked around cities with "The End Is Near" signs. Today they post to Facebook and blogs, and attract thousands of followers who are looking for anything to confirm their fears of corporate and government conspiracies to kill us all, or at least all of us on Kauai.

Thank you for the morning snark, Joan. I'd laugh more if it wasn't so sad that this is nonfiction.

Anonymous said...

The plane speculation was over the top and most people would see it for what it is, some harmless guy having a moment. Normal people would just ignore it instead of going to all those lengths to have the military explain it. SMH.

The microwave issue however should raise some eyebrows. WTF? While the theories were not exactly correct, the capabilities revealed do not make this reader any cozier about what the microwave towers are capable of. In fact, the irony is that I'd be more concerned with the side effects these towers can cause than the GMO companies. If one of these towers has the far reaching power to disable electronics in China, then what impact could they possibly have on wildlife and organisms?

Joan, my point is so what if the cranks do their thing and for the most part, put out nonsense that normal folks just ignore and move past. But maybe just once in a while a feasible concern is brought up that people should take a moment and ponder. Terry is maybe showing some nuttiness about the plane, but to be repetitive, his microwave whistle blowing, while maybe not exactly on the spot, should raise some questions about the strength and capabilities such technology has and how it might impact the surroundings - both plant and animal.

Anonymous said...

Mahalo Joan for your research. This is what is needed. Research and facts, not just theory. I did notice that Capt. Hay only mentioned radar and did not deny microwave frequencies being tested as a weapon (radar is not a weapon, is it?). And he also did not say what the towers he is speaking of are actually used for. His answer was a little vague to assure us that no microwave weaponry is being tested. So I will wait to draw conclusions. How about asking Capt. Hay straight out if microwaves are being tested as a weapon on Kauaʻi- yes or no? Terry may be rash in stating a theory as a fact, but is is doing us all a great service with his work, gathering so much info for everyone to use in determining the facts concerning our alarming reef collapse. He just needs to hold his opinions until he can offer more proof of his claims. Your research helps us so much in determining what is true. You and Terry make a great team! Thank you.

Joan Conrow said...

So you think his claims about the planes were nutty, but you accept his claims about the towers? SMH

Anonymous said...

@10:39- Good points. The public needs to know what weapons are being tested on Kauaʻi. Transparency, not secrecy. I know nothing about microwaves being used as weapons, but if these kinds of weapons are actually being tested in Hawaiʻi and here on Kauaʻi, then many people would really like to know more about this. Journalistic articles and blogs about this topic will contribute immensely to the publicʻs right to know.

Anonymous said...

Microwave weaponry testing? On Kauaʻi? wth, is this for real? Why would the military want to test such weapons here with so many people, animals, fish, reefs around? I hope this is just an uneducated theory and that there is no truth to the claim.

Anonymous said...

11:18 Terry is not a harmless guy. He is dangerous like all fanatics.

Anonymous said...

Chemtrail nut cases. And who are these fools that don't realize weapons testing is an important component of the Kauai economy? I think they need to move. Go. Pau.
And those microwave receivers are not part of weapons testing. They are receivers for television and telephone communications.

Anonymous said...

Those towers Lilley worries about are relaying his cell phone signals They are not weapons

Anonymous said...

There are no "microwave weapons" at PMRF, whatever that is. RADAR works at microwave frequencies and would be the most powerful microwave emitters PMRF has, and there is nothing extraordinary about them. It would be physically impossible for them to do the damage Lilley claims. Even when they are on, they would be pointed towards the sky, since they track airborne objects. Joan, thanks for pointing out how much of a crank this guy is. Hopefully TGI gets the message.

Anonymous said...

!:06 If you think an economy which gives high value to weapons testing is more important than an economy based upon aloha ʻāina, then perhaps you are the one who should consider moving. Weapons testing for the past 150 years or so has done nothing at all to create a better world. It has only resulted in the killing of countless millions of men, women and children. Weapons testing is not compatible with Hawaiian culture, where love and respect of land and all life is of primary importance. If we truly want a peaceful world for our children and generations to come, then weapon development and testing must come to an end. The billions and trillions of $$$$ spent on weapons and war could be better spent providing food, clean water, shelter and healthcare for all and also for cleaning up our horribly polluted planet.

Anonymous said...

12:23 Terry is not dangerous. Whatever is killing our reefs and coral at a rate faster than anywhere else (almost complete collapse on Kauaʻis northshore), that is the real danger. Terry is not perfect, but then again, who is? His intentions are good and he works harder than anyone else in recording on video what is happening to our reefs. He asks questions, and answering those questions helps us to move forward in seeking what is actually true. Please forgive him when he rushes to judgment. Please pay attention to what he records on video. The camera does not judge. Mahalo to Terry for being at the forefront in exposing this ongoing ecological disaster to the public. Hopefully more of us will begin to ask important questions instead of using Terry as a punching bag.

Kelvin Peat said...

Oh great... Now we can expect a million fistees march up to the gates of PMRF. With all the talk of chem trails, gmo's, dairy cows, and now microwave super weapons on Kauai, how is one to choose which cause to take up?

Anybody want to start a pool, to see how soon Barca takes up the 'Microwave no mo' Pono' movement on Facebook?

Anonymous said...

Yes, 1:38 PM, let's live in LALA land and ignore the fact that we can't even get along with ourselves, much less with other countries who would love to control us and our resources. Let's disarm the U.S. and welcome all to paradise. You must be a shill for Russia, Iran, N. Korea, China, etc.

Anonymous said...

1:38
BS. And why should I consider moving? I was the one born here. Just because you are peace and love and all that crap doesn't mean other countries are. And I suggest you visit first our really good local museum for a fine display of weapons and the the Fort DeRussy Museum on Oahu for a history of warfare in Hawaii from early times to present. While you are at it, might as well throw in Pearl Harbor. They have four major historical venues.

Anonymous said...

@:38
Actually our economy gives more weight to social benefits to people so they don't have to work and still get free money than it does to weapons development...and if I'm not mistaken, our highly trained military is not only useful for killing people. They are the only organisation with the logistical capacity and organization to provide instantaneous large scale humanitarian aid in events of disaster world wide.

Anonymous said...

I thought the reason we build weapons to the highest degree is so that we don't get attacked. Would one go looking for trouble with a knife knowing the other guy has an asault rifle. I guess the word is deterence or something like that.

Anonymous said...

There are barking dog laws all over the country. Why not copy one that works?

Anonymous said...

!:38, Before you wax all atwitter over your concept of aloha aina, you might read this selection after Fornander: KA-PU-W AHA-ULAULA found here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/hhl/hhl20.htm It's all well and good to conjure up wonderful notions, but to conflate a rather foreign take on na poe kahiko with your "moral economy" is your cultural conceit and not necessarily shared by some of us descended from participants in those times. The Hawaiians fought regularly, fought hard and the fights took a bloody toll and blighted the land- until Kamehameha and his artillerists prevailed. You may not know or like it, but that's how it was. Things haven't changed a lot, but it's better now, as it was then, to be on the prevailing side. If you want to sit there and get the shit kicked out of you, all your food, clean water, shelter and healthcare and your patch of the horribly polluted planet will go to the kicker.

Anonymous said...

I hope PMRF has all of the ingredients to assist any and all military needs.
The USA is the line of defense that allows us to still babble on blogs and walk or swim around freely.
The 1940s are not so long ago. For all of my peace loving chemtrail/unicorn/radar friends out there....without the military- what language would you be speaking? German or Japanese?
Yep. History is history and all of the antis out there will be aghast at this support of PMRF and the military. Oh yea...Kamehameha had no problem using guns and cannon whilst he "conquered" Hawaii.
War is real. And there really are very bad people out there.
As far as Mel et al go---they will construct a good noise ordinance.
The Council better move fast. Great gobs of big bucks are being piled up by the HAPA people. and now that Jimmy T has plead guilty to a harmless oversight....Dylan Baby Hoos and Big Fistee Hoos will really make hay. I am sorry about Jimmy's situation. I admire him for setting the record straight and manning up to his oversight. He is a fine person.
The island be a changin' Mr Mel............and it might not be long before the Council chambers are reeking of Paklolo and Patchouli Oil. The rich newcomers are teeming. They have made their bucks off island, now own the island and will change the island to their wants. No ties to the economy, no ties to Ag, no ties to Local ways, no ties...except to new age fads, chemtrail, anti-GMO...Oh Gawd, politics and Da Fistees, JoAnn, Tim Bynums, Felicias, Terry Lillys etc and their ilk may soon rule the roost. Look out hunters, dogs, loud local-boy Hondas, Harleys, music and god forbid some local mokes drink some brewskis and puff some Pakalolo at the beach and speak loudly..then you'll see the cops. Those big local boys are scary and they violate my Qi.

Anonymous said...

Dwight Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex. Unfortunately, we didn't listen.

Anonymous said...

Having a prepared military is not a problem. The problem is the needless development and use of mass weapons of destruction.The USA invaded Iraq looking for mass weapons of destruction and found nothing. How many innocent Iraqiʻs died as a result of American weapons? The US has the highest number of weapons of mass destruction by far of any nation on earth. Should other countries attack the US for that reason. We have attacked them agressively when they were not threatening us. For example, nuclear bombing the Mariannaʻs, agent orange in Vietnam, drones killing innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan. By doing so, the US creates enemies in those country. We do not need more enemies to be safe. We need more friends. Can anyone reading this blog show how mass weapons of destruction are creating more friendship, cooperation and harmony among the countries of the world? All I see is that they create death and destruction.

Anonymous said...

Heard this one today...Teacher at school asked her students what are chickens good for...eggs said the girl, good job; teacher asked the next student what rabbits are good for...meat said the little boy, good job; teacher asked the next student...what are fat cows good for...little boy answers..giving homework!!

Anonymous said...

After Hurricance Iniki hit us, PMRF had a Blue Flatbed truck carrying MREs and handing it out to the residents in Kekaha. I saw that first hand.

Anonymous said...

Wake up sheeple! Bow and arrow-spear-knife-sword-guns-bombs-mustard gas-nuclear weapons. This seems to be an endless cycle. And the huge profits being made by corporations who produce weapons that kill indiscriminately. Who in America made billionʻs in profit at the expense of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians in that war? Veterans come home with missing limbs and damaged psyches and are treated like sh*t by the government, while the ones who sent them to fight reap the billions in profits. War is the biggest business in America. The USA has more than 800 military bases around the world. How many does Russia have? Or China? or Japan? The rest of the world feels threatened by our military and our weapons. If they feel threatened, then there can be no peace. Peace means removing the threat, not killing innocent people.

Anonymous said...

Now if we had some smart politicians or reasonable community advocates, they could cuddle up to PMRF and Tulsi Gabbard and try to work in an Ag program in conjunction with the military.
There are several regulations that have enormous funding to make sure the military can be fed locally. The military money and community groups may be able to work together to harness the Ag out of the Mana fields. The land is there and the irrigation is intact.
But since the great Dan Inouye is gone and our new Senators are full blown anti-military Commies, Schatz and Hiraono are outski.
Tulsi supports the military and perhaps she could get the money. The money is there and the the regulations are there. It is a process to get in front of the military Money guys in Washington DC, but maybe Tulsi could do it. She has aspirations and what could be better than Ag and Guns? Inouye could get money to Kauai in a heartbeat. One phone call.
Maybe the best surveyor/engineer on the island and a man who has the deep respect of many at the State and in the Democratic Party could step forward and softly present the idea to Ms Gabbard. She has his ear and she is a fine lady. Shucks maybe even Schatz could get involved.
Many of our community advocates have moved away from working toward solutions. They are afraid of the backlash and nutjobs, that seem to suffocate any open conversation. And the nutjobs and Fistee Grandstanders get the GI headlines.
Kauai has some great people who are now silent. Hyperbole and accusations have replaced reasonable behavior.
In Dan Inouye's time, Kauai received many benefits from the military largess. Even Da Hoos quieted down his theatrical PMRF chanting and anti-War sign waving after he learned that the great Dan Inouye was back dooring Military money to fund certain Ag projects on Kauai.
But all we do is talk about barking doggies and smokey chimneys. And all I do is spray Roundup, dig fence posts, cut grass and plant plants.
And smarm about on this blog.

Anonymous said...

How many refuse to admit that the USA is responsible for one of the greatest genocides in history. That the USA took over the peaceful nation of Hawaiʻi at gunpoint? And now we are expected to believe that the US is here to "protect" us? From who? I think what we really need is protection from the US. The queen would cry if she could see what has become of her beloved country.

Anonymous said...

Fornander was the Lilly of his time. You know nothing about Hawaiian history his sources were john papa ii and other true Hawaiians he just documented it and screwed it to fit his racist agenda two we in this state fought protested the military bombing and testing of weapons at kahoolawe people died in the effort an the island now belongs to the people a brave journalist helped the Hawaiians.three this so called person from PMRF never talk to anyone. His comments are being reported second hand. He himself did not post on this blog to explain anything. There is no proof such a conversation did take place fourth if you want toassumeit didtakepolace then he admitted weapons testing on Kauai the only one people were aware of was the star wars one fifth people protests pmrf after they had to detonate a live missile that was mistakenly headed for hanalei bay in the middle of a beautiful summer day if you dont believe me then look it up brainiacs sheesh you people on this blog are so hilarious tink u know it all yeah? Problem is most of you haven't been here for long and the ones that have weren't involved in stuff so they don't know
U need to get that military guy to write searching himself and put his name to it like an official statement according to the hearsay on this blog he did not either confirm or deny that weapons testing using those towers was going on
I am sure that news organizations will get the full story and report statements from PMRF that will be official.

Anonymous said...

also to 3:02 its nice to see a Donald Trump supporter in here what an idiot and for Chuck Lasker who is still wet behind the ears from his recent flight over here to live after landing and immediately running for the KE board now there is a real piece of work and he don't even do patchouli or pakalolo or new age Hes those mainland people ho say I am here everything will be fine because I am the great pubah of stupidity and know everything. These are the REAL guys that are taking over.Wake up people.

Anonymous said...

Here is some useful information on microwave weapons obtained from Wikipedia.
Microwave weapons

Although some devices are labelled as Microwave Weapons, the microwave range is commonly defined as being between 300 MHz and 300 GHz which is within the RF range.[5] Some examples of weapons which have been publicized by the military are as follows:

Active Denial System is a millimeter wave source that heats the water in the target's skin and thus causes incapacitating pain. It is being used by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory and Raytheon for riot-control duty. Though intended to cause severe pain while leaving no lasting damage, some concern has been voiced as to whether the system could cause irreversible damage to the eyes. There has yet to be testing for long-term side effects of exposure to the microwave beam. It can also destroy unshielded electronics: see TEMPEST (research into unintended electronic release of information).[6] The device comes in various sizes including attached to a humvee.
Vigilant Eagle is an airport defense system that directs high-frequency microwaves towards any projectile that is fired at an aircraft.[7] The system consists of a missile-detecting and tracking subsystem (MDT), a command and control system, and a scanning array. The MDT is a fixed grid of passive infrared (IR) cameras. The command and control system determines the missile launch point. The scanning array projects microwaves that disrupt the surface-to-air missile's guidance system, deflecting it from the aircraft.[8]
Bofors HPM Blackout is a high-powered microwave weapon system which is stated to be able to destroy at distance a wide variety of commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) electronic equipment. It is stated to be not lethal to humans.[9][10][11]
The effective radiated power (ERP) of the EL/M-2080 Green Pine radar makes it a possible candidate for conversion into a directed-energy weapon, by focusing pulses of radar energy on target missiles.[12] The energy spikes are tailored to enter missiles through antennas or sensor apertures where they can fool guidance systems, scramble computer memories or even burn out sensitive electronic components.[12]

Anonymous said...

@2:19 Letʻs NOT "ignore the fact that we cannot even get along with ourselves"- that is the crux of the problem. And that is why aloha ʻāina and pono are so important- because they are the solution to how to get along. By the way, can you explain how weapons help us to get along with each other better? And how do weapons support aloha ʻāina? And what is pono about killing innocent people? And why the US should not lead the world in reducing weapons, sitting at the table and having public dialogues with the "enemy" instead of attacking them? Ask any of the great peacemakers what the world needs- Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Jesus. Do you think they would say. "We need more weapons?" Or "We need more love?"

Anonymous said...

4:25 Mahalo for your manaʻo. Kahoʻolawe was recovered due to the action of many true aloha ʻāina patriots who stood up like David against Goliath against the bombing of our precious land. Now they they have bombed Pohakuloa on the Big Island with depleted uranium weapons which is extremely dangerous to human health. The people at the top who run the military value war, profit. power and control over peace, pono and aloha ʻāina. And those who support them have been brainwashed. I know. because I was brainwashed myself until I woke up. Hawaiians are on the rise- may David win again, armed only with aloha.

Anonymous said...

4:25 said "Fornander was the Lilly of his time. You know nothing about Hawaiian history his sources were john papa ii and other true Hawaiians he just documented it and screwed it to fit his racist agenda"
That is undoubtedly why he held a series of important appointments and honors from Kamehameha V including a Privy Council seat, several judgeships, some other government posts and an award as the final recipient of the Knights Commander of Kamehameha 1. That's not to mention the body of his historical work. Who are we to argue with royal favor? And since he married a Hawaiian, he's a rather odd racist. I think it's a stretch to label him the Lilley of his time, but have it your way.

Anonymous said...

Easy to pick out the nuts from cake in this one.

T said...

So people who are supporting the lilley allegations about the ring of microwave towers the navy put up around kauai, do you also still believe in Chem trails despite what has been mentioned by other commenters and the base commander about the 'sprayer' planes that lilley photographed aND accused of spraying chemicals into the air?
just curious cuz we all kinda came off of the original topic of the blog post here....

Dawson said...

August 26, 2015 at 9:02 PM wrote:
Easy to pick out the nuts from cake in this one.

Nuts-a-plenty, for sure. Chemtrails and military death rays are only the tip of the melting iceberg. From the article "Insights into the Personalities of Conspiracy Theorists" in Scientific American:

Polls estimate that anywhere from 6 to 25 percent of the general population believes the moon landing was faked, and 37 percent of Americans suspect global warming is a hoax.

An article in Psychology Today, "Paranoia and the Roots of Conspiracy Theories," discusses the psychology behind conspiracy thinking. It cites a book called Empire of Conspiracy by Tim Melley:

...Melley seeks to explain why conspiracy theories and paranoia have become so pervasive in American culture in recent decades. He discusses some of the paranoia behind our obsessions with political assassinations, gender and race relations, stalkers, mind control, bureaucracies, and the power of corporations and governments.

Melley proposes that conspiracy thinking arises from a combination of two factors, when someone: 1) holds strong individualist values and 2) lacks a sense of control. The first attribute refers to people who care deeply about an individual's right to make their own choices and direct their own lives without interference or obligations to a larger system (like the government). But combine this with a sense of powerlessness in one's own life, and you get what Melley calls agency panic, "intense anxiety about an apparent loss of autonomy" to outside forces or regulators.

When fervent individualists feel that they cannot exercise their independence, they experience a crisis and assume that larger forces are to blame for usurping this freedom. "For one who refuses to relinquish the assumptions of liberal individualism, such newly revealed forms of regulation frequently seem so unacceptable or unbelievable that they can only be met with anxiety, melodrama, or panic."



The Scientific American article is at http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/insights-into-the-personalities-conspiracy-theorists/

The Psychology Today article is at https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-narcissus-in-all-us/200809/paranoia-and-the-roots-conspiracy-theories

Anonymous said...

He asks questions? Hello this guy caused panic about some old plane flying over Kapaa. Claimed he could see a tube spraying chemicals on kids. And you say he is harmless for misinforming people and scaring them. Then he flies to Oahu the next day and makes more absurd claims about the military that he knows nothing about. This guy may have had good intentions in the past, but now has fallen into this paranoia state of mind. Crazy how some of you disrespect the men and women that are willing to lay down their lives for you and me.

Anonymous said...

6:40
Many of the sovereignty people are functionally illiterate.,I happen to have a copy of Fornander in my library among many other works, some printed long ago. His research matches that of many others. Much of the revisionist history we here now has no basis in fact and is contradicted by the words of the subjects themselves.

Anonymous said...

Amen!!

Anonymous said...

One of the reasons why "Chicken Little" and "the sky is falling" came about. What is a secret? For many of us it doen't exist because we tell....What is top secret? One better than a secret, makes it more worth the while to tell. In the game of Football, what good is it that the other team knows what you are planning to on the next play...In Baseball, it wouldn't be a game if the batter knew what pitch is coming. In National Defense, why worry, do your job and do it well. If you don't have a job??

Anonymous said...

10:24- Still waiting to find out what that plane was doing there. Was it over land or sea. I do not think that was a plane emitting chemtrails from what I have read. But if the exhaust contained anything unhealthy in liquid form, it definitely should not be flying any where near the island. Or anywhere else for that matter. Might fall on your head or in your garden.

Anonymous said...

Think of the exhaust from a car. Is it in liquid form? No. Nothing is going to fall on your head or in your garden, except perhaps the sky, Chicken Little.

If you actually read the post you would know exactly what the plane was doing there: practicing instrument approach training at Lihue. Capt. Hay said, "if they were indeed over Kapa'a, it was a sequencing spacer for either inbound or outbound traffic."

In other words, they were being directed to fly over Kapaa by air traffic control.

Anonymous said...

Dawson 9:02 Conspiracy theorists are not always wrong. Please read the court case by Martin Luther Kingʻs family that decided he was killed by a conspiracy, not by a lone gunman. And please have a look at this article where John Oliver speaks of the surveillance state ( http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/john-oliver-edward-snowden-and-unconditional-basic-income/ ). A short study of recent history reveals the USA involved in untold numbers of conspiracies around the world. And as far as chemtrails go, their is a wealth of photos that cannot be explained by contrails, in addition to whistleblowers who are coming who have worked for government Geoengineering, the more you research it, seems to be more and more likely. Thorough
research is the key.

Dawson said...


7:54 AM wrote:
...A short study of recent history reveals the USA involved in untold numbers of conspiracies around the world. And as far as chemtrails go, their is a wealth of photos that cannot be explained by contrails, in addition to whistleblowers who are coming who have worked for government Geoengineering, the more you research it, seems to be more and more likely.

Thank you for proving my point.

Anonymous said...

7:54 Yep, Some conspiracy theories have been proven to be true, some have been proven to be false, and some have yet to be proven true or false. And that is the absolute truth.

Anonymous said...

7:54 am I thought you were joking about MLK and did some checking and this is what I found For some strange reason, the mass media never told the story. Here is a link- [ http://www.thekingcenter.org/assassination-conspiracy-trial ]. And here are two excerpts from the article- 1"After four weeks of testimony and over 70 witnesses in a civil trial in Memphis, Tennessee, twelve jurors reached a unanimous verdict on December 8, 1999 after about an hour of deliberations that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. In a press statement held the following day in Atlanta, Mrs. Coretta Scott King welcomed the verdict, saying , “There is abundant evidence of a major high level conspiracy in the assassination of my husband, Martin Luther King, Jr." 2"The jury was clearly convinced by the extensive evidence that was presented during the trial that, in addition to Mr. Jowers, the conspiracy of the Mafia, local, state and federal government agencies, were deeply involved in the assassination of my husband. The jury also affirmed overwhelming evidence that identified someone else, not James Earl Ray, as the shooter, and that Mr. Ray was set up to take the blame." Very interesting reading, have a look.

Anonymous said...

Those are conspiracies perpetrated as acts by people. Chemtrail conspiracy theorist have been given demonstrable SCIENTIFIC evidence that the trails very commonly seen behind aircraft are simply water vapor condensing because of the exhaust from the engines. Regardless of the fact that people are capable of conspiracy do you chemtrail nuts understand the scale of the conspiracy?! You accuse EVERY plane in the air of spraying chemicals yet that would require everyone who worked in manufacture, maintenance, and operation of said aircraft to keep their mouths shut and not post evidence to social media. How can you believe that such a large conspiracy possibly exist?

Anonymous said...

what's wrong with Chuck Lasker?

Dawson said...


9:50 PM wrote:
...Chemtrail conspiracy theorist have been given demonstrable SCIENTIFIC evidence that the trails very commonly seen behind aircraft are simply water vapor condensing because of the exhaust from the engines. Regardless of the fact that people are capable of conspiracy do you chemtrail nuts understand the scale of the conspiracy?! You accuse EVERY plane in the air of spraying chemicals yet that would require everyone who worked in manufacture, maintenance, and operation of said aircraft to keep their mouths shut and not post evidence to social media. How can you believe that such a large conspiracy possibly exist?

The attraction for chemtrail conspiracy believers is the same as for fake-moon-landing believers: the more elaborate and widespread the conspiracy, the more dramatic it is emotionally and the more it confirms their feelings of anxiety and loss of control. The more authoritative the evidence that the conspiracy is untrue, the more it confirms their belief in the power of the conspiracy. Social media allows conspiracy believers to reinforce each other and proselytize new believers, in a process similar to group participation in cults.

Anonymous said...

8:47 That is why it why transparency and facts are so important. Searching for facts that prove or disprove the theory. Unfortunately many conspiracy theories exist because of the lack of transparency so common with governments and large corporations. This secrecy and hiding of facts then results in theories due to lack of facts. People who consider such theories are called conspiracy theorists. They serve a very positive function in society in their search for the truth. Without them, we would never discover the real facts in many situations. So where are the facts that all the "contrails" are really all contrails? What if some are chemtrails. Computer analysis of all flight paths of all planes could easily be matched to the location of observed trails. These are facts I would pay attention to, if they were available to the public. If you could guide us to information like this, many people would greatly appreciate that.

Anonymous said...

@927
You are not nuts asking for help looking for resources to determine whether or not every contrails is a chemtrail. However are you willing to join the rest of us in considering lilley to be a fear mongerer by accusing low flying planes to be spraying chemical trails maliciously only a few thousand feet above populated areas by playing up conspiracy theories of chemtrails??

Anonymous said...

@11:15 Terry needs to learn how not to express opinions as facts. Other than that, I honor him for raising questions that need answers and for documenting Kauaʻiʻs reef disaster. I think it is more important to focus on the disaster itself and looking for facts to explain it than to focus on Terryʻs shortcomings. Terry has a wealth of facts to share with the public. Why not just pay attention to the facts and ignore his opinions if we donʻt agree with them. That is what I do. We are all in this together- if the ship goes down, we all go with it. Cooperation with each other is the key. I am sure I have been a "fear-mongerer myself at times in my life. So I understand the meaning of "judge not, lest ye be judged".

Anonymous said...

Dying reefs, no need to look much further than the million+ people who swarm the reefs, stepping all over them, while slathered in toxic sunscreen and mosquito repellent. Contamination and reef decline also due to the cesspools all along the ocean, it ain't rocket science.

Anonymous said...

"In 2013 Chinese authorities introduced a possible three-year sentence for spreading rumours - the sentence was supposed to apply to anyone who posted a rumour that was reposted 500 times or viewed 5,000 times.
Last year, Qin Zhihui, a blogger, was sentenced to three years in a government crackdown on internet rumours. Mr Qin was found guilty of "slander" and "picking quarrels and provoking troubles", state broadcaster CCTV said at the time."

Hmmmm, maybe we should consider this here?

Anonymous said...

So Mr. Lilley is spreading rumors. Lots of unsubstantiated claims. Lots of lies and bullshit. When will he be prosecuted?

Anonymous said...

Lilley is a habitual, pathological liar.

Anonymous said...

Why don't most of you including the author of this non-informative blog stick to the issues. This is JOURNALISM at its worse. Stop bashing and do some real reporting or shut this uninformative GOSSIP column down. Better yet go test your naivety...Stand in front of a microwave installation for 15 minutes and see how you feel. I served in the NAVY and I can tell you how many times we were warned not to get near those antennas for a variety of deadly health side effects. Lilley is your scape goat and your excuse for your sensationalist journalism all to get people to pay attention to you. TO YOU...and not the real facts that several intelligent people have responded to in your blog.
Captain Hay quite frankly is a hippocrate. He says how open he is in his TGI interview a year ago and also goes on about his love of nature and sea turtles. He openly invites all who would like to see PMRF for themselves that they are welcome. I can tell you first hand that he denied on multiple occasions a team of world re-known scientists and researchers access to the base so they could present data and see for themselves the installations on the base. The military does not divulge information until that moment that they are caught red-handed and that the press has had a field day publishing their environmental blunders. What have YOU done to get your facts straight. What makes you qualified to make the comments you make? Are you a scientist? I think not...

Do us all a favor, do the environment a favor. Go work for FOX news and join the Carly Fiorina campaign. You're a good match...If anyone hear is spreading lies, it's clearly you as anyone with an IQ can see.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah I'm sure you lack the courage to approve my comments...

Joan Conrow said...

Uh, I'm not the one with a courage problem, "Anonymous." And since you won't actually put your name behind what you say, I'm afraid you have zero credibility -- just like Terry Lilley with his sensationalistic claims that are utterly BS. Oh, and if you don't like my blog, don't read it, chump.

ChemE Stewart said...


This warship was dissolving due to stray electrical current corrosion induced by the radar system (second link). Interface between metal and saltwater will corrode from chloride attack as electrical current flows between metal ship and seawater.

http://www.wired.com/2011/06/shipbuilder-blames-navy-as-brand-new-warship-disintegrates/

"Electrical charges possibly originating in the ship’s combat systems apparently sparked the electrolysis."

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=173041

"It turned out that three factors had coincided to produce a perfect storm of galvanic corrosion. The first factor was that normally, such ships are equipped with a Cathodic Protection System (CPS). Originally, the LCS-2 design did include cathodic protection in the waterjets, alongside coatings and insulation, but it wasn’t enough, and some of the insulation wasn’t installed properly.

...
The final problem was that there is a big difference between the electronic fits on merchant ships and warships. There are a lot more electronic systems on the latter and they run at power levels that are an order of magnitude (or more) greater than their civilian equivalents. This means that the stray electrical currents that are the basic cause of galvanic corrosion are much more common and a lot more damaging. This was actually the fundamental issue; the powerful radars and other electronic equipment were setting up eddy currents in the hull and they were greatly accelerating the whole galvanic corrosion issue.

This effect was unsuspected and its occurrence/non-detection was the result of moving a technology into entirely new waters. There was a very steep learning curve involved, but once it had been completed, it was realized that the problem was actually a known one with a known fix. It was just that the unsuspected interplay of powerful electronics and galvanic corrosion meant that a lot more of the fix was needed.

These are the same radars that are corroding and dissolving your calcium based coral reefs on Kauai. Calcium is a metal and is very reactive

ChemE Stewart said...

You did not post my scientific information on EM radiation causing electrical current corrosion in marine structures, which is very common. Why Not?

http://www.wired.com/2011/06/shipbuilder-blames-navy-as-brand-new-warship-disintegrates/

Caused by the high power high gain radar on board conducting electrical charge into the seawater and dissolving the warship, just like it is doing with your coral reefs? Calcium is a metal and makes up much of your reef.

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=173041







Stay In School Kauai said...

Wow. I have been on Kauai for 3 years now. At first, as a home owner in the conservation district, I did not like what I was reading on your blog. Now you have become the lone voice of reason and common sense on an otherwise dimly lit and misinformed community on Kauai. It is not that you just hear these wild tales on Terry Lilly's facebook page (aka the guy that literally lives in a van down by the river) it is that you hear them in conversations on the beach, talking story to your neighbors and from otherwise well educated friends.

Keep up the great work. I implore all of the people that read this to do some homework, read about science and come up with your own ideas and conclusions.

- Signed - Your Friend in Chemtrail Research

Just kidding - the whole chemtrail thing is amazing. I can't get over the people who believe these wild stories.