Saturday, February 27, 2016

Musings: No Free Lunch

In traveling around the Islands, talking to farmers and scientists and policy-makers, I keep hearing, when people ask where I'm from: “Oh, Kauai. That's ground zero, isn't it?”

They aren't referring to GMO field trials or crops, but the hostility and hatred that has been focused against them, and by extension, any form of agriculture that doesn't pass the non-farming activist smell test.

The mention of Kauai used to elicit quite a different response around the state: old-school, charming, still Hawaiian, special. Folks had a sense that it was a little oasis preserving the most wonderful aspects of Hawaii. And now, thanks to Gary Hooser, Hawaii SEED, Center for Food Safety, Earthjustice and GMO-Free Kauai, it's viewed as the center of a shit storm.

Sigh.

In talking to farmers and ranchers, I am continually struck by how hard they work, and the incredible risks they take, in order to produce something that sustains others. Every initiative is an economic gamble, yet they keep at it, because they love the life, and they feel good about what they do.

I can't help but contrast these frugal, self-made folks with the heavily subsidized Kilauea ag park, which is moving forward, supported by grant money and public funds.

After getting the land at no cost, they've spent $1 million to get water to just one section of the park, while another $500,000 is needed to irrigate the rest. And what will they get for that investment?

Well, according to today's edition of The Garden Island:

The plan for the park is to allow 30 families to work together, with a six-month commitment, under the supervision of a farm manager to grow food. Those families will receive a bi-weekly, custom-made box of produce with at least seven items. Seeds, tools, fertilizers, and soil amendments will be provided to families.

Wow. Those are some super expensive veggies — if they even pull it off.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great to teach people how to grow food. But when I hear folks like Keone Keone claim that this park “will serve thousands of residents on Kauai as a regional food hub assisting Hawaii’s shared efforts to increase food security, preserve rural character, provide viable, agriculturally based economic development with a long term vision to provide our youth with rewarding jobs and skills in agriculture” — using “traditional practices” no less — I can't help but catch a whiff of bullshit.

As farmers have repeatedly told me, the definition of sustainability is profitability. 

And that's the part of the equation that's missing in the Kilauea ag park, the Kilauea “food forest” and the activist dream of communal agriculture. It's founded on freebies and hand-outs, when we should all know by now that there is no free lunch.

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

Joan writes,"As farmers have repeatedly told me, the definition of sustainability is profitability." This definition is flawed and based upon upon false capitalistic thinking. Before Capt. Cook showed up in the islands, Hawaiʻi was completely self-sustaining and self sufficient. Food was not grown, hunted or fished for profit. Food was shared. The profit motive actually works against sustainability because it is based upon greed, not sharing. That is why people all over the world are beginning to question capitalism and seek out alternatives. Capitalism is probably the greatest threat to true sustainability that the world faces today.

Anonymous said...

Kauai is in a race with Maui for the worst island.

Anonymous said...

Joan said, "As farmers have repeatedly told me, the definition of sustainability is profitability."

... and Kukuni Blaisdell said, "You come here as westerners with western ideas like profit. What is profit? One takes more than one gives. That's what profit is."

Kukuni was the first to asked, "If one compares original historic descriptions of Hawaiians (robust health) with current statistics (ill health), what is it about western contact other than the obvious that explains near extinction of a race?"

Unless I am mistaken historically Kanaka Maoli practice was GMO free and they enjoyed robust health.

Anonymous said...

2/27 @ 10:57AM, if you want to go that model of life YOU will have to give up almost all of your creature comforts and YOU will have to work out in the weather for 10+ hours a day and YOU will likely have a much poorer diet and shorter life expectancy.

Manawai said...

10:57 said "Food was not grown, hunted or fished for profit. Food was shared."

That is the dumbest revisionist propaganda I've ever heard!!! The Hawaiians raised their food and fished, etc. in order to survive and to pay a large portion of their produce to the ali'i. They had a barter system where they traded what we call today profits to others for what they needed. The fisherman traded his excess (profit) fish for the fruit the picker found in the mountains. This whole business of glorifying the pre-contact Hawaiians as great ecologists and conservationists is total crap. The ali'i had to put kapu on the fish ponds and other natural food sources to preserve it for themselves and so that the kanaka maole didn't deplete these the sources.

Anonymous said...

Joan would never offer her analysis of capitalism because it is way above her pay-grade. Kinda like her oft stated "support" for Hawaiian Sovereignty and yet she can't name an activist she agrees with. That is why she deletes any post that asks tough questions. She only posts the "anon stupids" to make herself look smart.

Anonymous said...

Spoken like a true Marxist 10:57. Why don't you move to Cuba now that trade is open and try your B.S. there. Too bad it's only about a hundred years behind the times there. But I'm sure you could move it back another hundred. Moron.

Anonymous said...

Capitalistic thinking or not, ag in Hawaii before Captain Cook and during the sugar and pineapple plantation days relied upon cheap labor.

Anonymous said...

It will be interesting to see what goes on at the Kilauea ag park. How quickly the turnover of wannabee farmers be. I wonder if anyone of them will learn to exist in farming without free land and free stuff (supplies).

Anonymous said...

The Kilauea Ag park was created out of the SeaCliff Sub-D. Should of been done decades ago. An example of unkept promises, but it is OK because the Sea Cliff Sub-D has nice 20 million dollars Ag houses. All those agricultural reservoirs AKA swimming pools, sure have enough water. Not bad.
I am sure the new farmers will do fine. This was JoAnn's baby back in the Sea Cliff days. She was a shining light in getting this land from Sea Cliff...but like most of her dreams, it will cost millions and serve only a few lucky ones. They can take a million dollar bus to the million dollar farm.
It has taken awhile, but hopefully Da Hoos and his Fistees can see that all Ag takes effort, commitment and money.
The West Side has kept their hana wai ditches and roads open. If the simple things like ditches and reservoirs aren't kept up, it takes tons of money and labor.
If the Eastside were to try to bring an "Ag park" into fruition the cost of re-building the Hana Wai ditches would be astronomical. Right now, the ditches, which are owned by the DLNR have a no-touch policy. If a person fixes or touches the DLNR ditch they will have the EPA, Planning, DLNR and the cops on you for trespassing, illegal tampering etc. According to the DLNR, even if they don't know where the ditch is, you can not legally cross it on a regular basis without written authorization....this takes about a year to get after several hurdles, including insurance and a promise to not molest the ditch or use it to carry water.
Ag is work. And the State/County are part of the difficulty....jumpin' Jehosafah, 14,000 for a water meter? That's a lot of Rambutan or Kale.
We should thank GF, G&R, A&B and a few others for keeping their ditches open. The old ditches and old aqueducts are historical treasures. DLNR has let the reservoirs go to pot and the ditches to ruin.

75 acres is a start. But the Mana State owned Ag lands lay dormant, ready to farm, water on hand...all it needs are farmers. Lots of land and not a Fistee Farmer in sight. But then again the NS has panache, it is a really hip place. A Fistee can fit in, shucks, maybe they can grow some of the Pharmaceutical Weed.
That old Westside is a hot dusty place...with some of the best soil and proven Ag production.
If the County put half the effort into Mana, there would be more acreage at a fraction of the cost. But in the more remote fields of the Westside, there won't be an audience to applaud an Ag effort. Kilauea will be a real live performance.
Oh my God, you mean that after you capitalize the cost of those potato/bananas, they are only 500 dollars each, what a deal, you are a real farmer.
The County would have been better off, creating 30 two acre home-sites, selling them off at 1 million each and taken the 30 million and build some homes for the people.
I embrace Ag, grow real stuff, but pay for it myself and don't need no County dough to help me sow.

Anonymous said...

12:19. Talk about revisionist history. Hawaiians had waring Chiefs that controlled all the lands. Everyday Hawaiians (the non-Ali'i) were merely serfs beholden to the benevolence of their lord Chiefs. Marriages were for political and land gains, and polygamy was rampant. Self-declared King Kamehameha slaughtered and married his way to expand his empire. Later the King passed lands to some Hawaiian families through the Great Mahele but others knew not the concept of money or couldn't pay the computations to the King to acquire the land. The Ali'i are virtually gone from power and the modern Hawaiians want to start history from there, although they want to add to their sovergnty the benefits of being a US citizen (welfare, medical, social security, and freedom of travel).

Anonymous said...

11:36 Mahalo for quoting Kukuni Blaisdell. His death brought sadness to many, He was so wise, a real Hawaiian patriot who could see clearly and thus say, ""You come here as westerners with western ideas like profit. What is profit? One takes more than one gives. That's what profit is." Exactly, taking more than what you give. Some prefer to be givers and others prefer to be takers. Personally, I will always support the giving way. That is the true aloha. Taking at the expense of others or at the expense of the environment is what is wrong with this foreign idea of capitalism being forced upon people around the world by the biggest bully the world has ever seen. His name is Sam and he is not my uncle.

Anonymous said...

4:59. Oh get off it. You and Everybody, including Kekuni who worked as a medical doctor, is living off profit. If you're on line with a computer it's at the expense of the environment. Drop the holier than thou bit.

Anonymous said...

You’re so right 4:24 PM, but Mana:

“75 acres is a start. But the Mana State owned Ag lands lay dormant, ready to farm, water on hand...all it needs are farmers.”

The super good westside land that used to get the world’s highest sugar yields are between Hanapepe and Waimea. Water, red dirt and sun. Everything west of the Waimea River is made up of silt from the erosion of the Waimea Canyon and the saline (salt) water table is every close to the surface. This requires constant pumping to keep it down to reduce the negative impacts on the growth of crops. Translating to into dollars and cents, it means higher costs (power) to farm and, at least in sugar’s case, lower yields. It’s exceedingly difficult to make a living farming in any case, but add problems like Kekaha has with its land and we have what we have now. Stuff that doesn’t need the soil. So non-farmer’s dreams of creating an agrarian utopia in those State-controlled lands in Kehaha are simply uninformed and inexperienced. Take it from the farmers. But who knows? Maybe there are all sorts of veggies one can grow in salty soil. Anchovies?

Anonymous said...

4:30 PM - It's "commutations" equal to 1/3 of the value to the parcel after they paid for a survey.

4:59 PM - Yes, Hawaii was a form of monarchical feudalism akin to today's socialism yet based on a barter economic system. The kanaka maole had no need for profits for their hard labor because they had no hope of ever getting them. Unlike today, they were doomed to poverty and base subsistence. That's why the Hawaiians of old in photographs and drawings, not the well-fed ali'i mind you, are skinny. Not much to eat but fish & veggies. Today's Hawaiians, like everyone else, have grown fat with carbs.

As for profits 4:59 PM, if you didn't have extra money over your needs, you wouldn't have anything to give away. Get real.

Anonymous said...

Trade and barter have worked well for many. The profit motive as a basis for an economy results in a world where 1% of the population controls and possesses more than 50% of the wealth of the laborers, without whom the 1% would recieve no profit whatsoever. It is a system which promotes exploitation of the people who do the real labor and work for wages they cannot even live on. That is the capitalist system. People today are exploring other approaches than capitalism and they are the vanguard of the future.

Anonymous said...

5:42- You seem to be an angry person. How sad that you refer to our beloved kupuna Kekuni and others who agree with him as holier than thou. That is not the impression I got from him or from the 4:59ʻs post. They are both just saying that they prefer giving and sharing over taking. I think that is a commendable attitude to hold- one that is also supported by all the great spiritual leaders throughout history. When speaking about "holier than thou", perhaps you should begin with yourself. It is so common to project and judge others, while failing to see that same fault in ourselves. Sort of like one who has feelings of attraction to the same sex but rants and denigrates against homosexuals. People like myself, Kekuni. 4:59 perhaps, do not believe in harboring holier than thou attitudes. That is not aloha. If you wish to value taking over giving and sharing, you certainly have the perfect right to do so. If there is a heaven, I sincerely doubt one needs money to survive there. Canʻt eat money if it becomes worthless- then only good for toilet paper or making a fire. Maybe we can begin thinking about how to help bring heaven down to earth? Wishing you happiness and health!

Anonymous said...

Why is everyone having such a hard time spelling Hawaiian words right? It's kekuni and maoli. Love it when the know it alls expose their ignorance like this.

Anonymous said...

8:02....misspelling happens to all of us including kānaka ʻōiwi. Why do you so enjoy people making mistakes. That really turns you on? It does not necessarily mean they are ignorant. And who are you speaking of that claims to "know it all"? I have seen noone making such claims. How wonderful you never misspell anything, so nobody can call you ignorant and a know-it-all. Wish I could be perfect like you!

Anonymous said...

@8:02 I am the one guilty of misspelling Kekuniʻs name. Why do you claim I am a "know it all". I certainly am willing to own up to my spelling errors. It helps me to learn when I make mistakes. I am not ignorant of the spelling, by the way. It was just an honest mistake. Mahlo nui for pointing it out to me. I hope you can find better ways to spend your time than gloating over and judging others for spelling mistakes. At least I can rest in peace knowing Kekuni doesnʻt really give a damn how I spell his name, but instead appreciates my honoring and respecting him as a great aloha ʻāina beloved by those who knew him. And by the way, if you chose to break grammatical rules by failing to use a capital "K" with Kekuniʻs name, that is quite ok with me. I am not a stickler for grammar or spelling.

Anonymous said...

Kekuni and kukuni are two different words. Any self respecting kanaka knows that spelling and even pronunciation can entirely change the meaning of a word and can mean the difference between praise and insult. Okina kahakou and vowels very much matter in a language of only 13 letters.

Anonymous said...

Okinakahakou meaning are only for the written word. Entonation, context and facial expressions are the greater part of the spoken language.

Anonymous said...

The Kilauea AG park is not sustainable at all, taking millions of dollars to even get up and running, what a crock.if it was going to be a good project, the land would have been worked on by the farmers, the farmers would certainly be responsible for their own tools and amendments and free to harvest, sell and eat what they grow. Sounds like a weird project, what do you mean, someone else harvests the food and packs boxes for the people farming there? What happens to the rest of the food grown? It sounds like the county should have kept that land out of the hands of the Keone Kealoha and Yoshi and given it to real farmers. So your box of produce each week, 30 of them, cost over a million dollars?that can't be called sustainable. Will they be spreading bullshit on the fields?

Anonymous said...

Joan the idea that grants and subsidies are Just freebies and handouts shows how little you know about the current agriculture setup. Most of the big crops (corn, soy, wheat etc.) Is subsidized from federal funds. Some years as much as 75%. Here in Hawaii we get shipping reimbursement on anything ag related which comes from the feds. We have the NRCS (federal program) that will provide money for farmers to pay for mulching, cover cropping, cross fencing, hedge installation, green houses, as well as many other much needed farming essentials. Many local farmers have taken advantage of grants to assist in acquiring a new tractor, implement, delivery car, or some piece of processing equipment during the early years when cash flow is low. Once you become more sustainable from acquiring more cash flow these programs are not needed. Trust me it's not easy as well as very time consuming applying for one of these programs with no guarantee of getting any money and sometimes the wait can be up to a year. alot easier to just buy it with cash if you got it. We all pay taxes for this stuff and if you want nothing to do with these programs that's fine but they are out there to provide much needed assistance to farmers everywhere.

Anonymous said...

Joan if you want to do some real research see what happened to the State money that was supposed to go to fix the Moloaa water system. As well as set up a processing food hub for all farmers on the North and East side to use. The money left the state, was approved by the council just to die in our mayor's office. The money had nothing to do with the county. State well, private water co-op, everything built on private property yet the county some how screwed it up like they always do.

Anonymous said...

And corn and sugar subsidies that go on forever? Why are you only opposed to subsidizing Waipa and Kilauea Ag Park?

Joan Conrow said...

7:40. I recognize there are many programs to assist farmers and farming. What is missing from this initial phase of the Kilauea AG park is a component to generate income to fund future operations and thus sustain it into the future. That's what makes their grants a handout as they'll just have to keep begging.

Joan Conrow said...

8:53. Is that what you're promoting? A recreation of commodity AG? I thought you folks wanted something new, different and most important, sustainable. Which leads me back to the oft-repeated comment by Hawaii farmers: profitability is key to sustainability.

Anonymous said...

It is refreshing to read a variety of comments re the Kilauea Ag Park. The conclusion I arrived at is: let us welcome any attempts at educating and helping any Kuaian who wants to learn a new trade, hobby, lifestyle, you name it, for how long and how much it would take to achieve that goal. Why worry about how much it would cost to bring water in? Water is life! It is not about bringing in drugs, guns, poisons, porn, bacteria and virus, etc. how much has it cost us all to fight or rehabilitate the errors of the past? How much does it cost to build prisons, rehab programs, rebuild lives...costs that will go on for generations to come?

A new farmer will need a lot of help not different from the needs and costs required to raise a child to hopefully leave the nest someday and be a good contributing citizen. We are one family living in one small island united in the goal of achieving sustainability one step at a time.
In my humble opinion.

Anonymous said...

"Why worry about how much it would cost to bring water in? Water is life!"

Yes, a true hippie taker statement! More handouts please (that some else has to pay for)!! And share what you have with me and I'd rather go to the beach rather than put any effort into improving and making something of myself!! Mahalo!

Anonymous said...

The county police and fire are trying to get FREE LUNCHES again. Every 2 years they come up with the same story that their subordinates are making more than the so called top officials.

Fact check this every 3 years since Perry and Westerman has been head of dept's. The same song on repeat and the only reason that detective probably made almost 200K was because people had to be wait in traffic do 5 hours for those traffic accident investigations.

Who's being held hostage here?

GREEDY heefers.

Anonymous said...

It's interesting tho wonder just how farmers got into farming in the past when there were no handouts. Hmmm... Maybe hard work, sacrifice, dedication, long term commitment, proving one's worth...??? Words alien to today's takers. Ya, just carry on having more kids out of wedlock that others must support because of your bad choices. And don't forget that beach time.

Anonymous said...

February 27, 2016 at 7:12 PM said, “It is a system which promotes exploitation of the people who do the real labor and work for wages they cannot even live on. That is the capitalist system.”

Spouted like a true loser who is unable to be successful in his/her own life and rather than take responsibility for his/her own choices, must blame others for their failures. What a sad case of jealously and self-instilled victimhood. A true taker rather than a producer.

Anonymous said...

Want to find a few hundred thousand dollars look at the budget for the Prosecuting Attorney? I believe Mel Rapozo may be looking into this right now. Novice attorneys are making six figures and costing tax-paying public even more in wasted court time while losing virtually every case they take a hard line stand on. These unseasoned lawyers could be losing their cases just as well at half the pay. Bam - 1/2 a million dollars saved overnight by cutting these insane salaries to median levels for junior attorneys in Hawaii.

The Ag park experiment in socialized agriculture and improvements to the Bus could be funded next day or another 7 new planning inspectors per year could be hired wth the savings.

Anonymous said...

Sugar was not directly subsidized. It received loans that were secured by sugar inventory in the best condition at a fixed rate. The loans were regularly repaid. What killed sugar in Hawaii was NAFTA. The American sugar worker simply is paid many,many times that of a Mexican laborer. Further, the corporate tax rates in Mexico are more favorable.

Anonymous said...

That's why we must vote for Bernie Sanders instead of Clinton and Trump.

Anonymous said...

No, there are no novice attorneys making six figures. There are two DPA's (besides the PA and 1st DPA) who make the maximum salary of $101k. Both are experienced circuit court prosecutors who have been with the office 6+ years (one has been a lawyer for MANY years) and are responsible for serious felony cases. Contrast to 4 years ago when the previous PA was paying people fresh out of law school the max.

Anonymous said...

What hastened the demise of the last sugar plantation in Hawaii, along with the hundreds, probably more like thousands, of jobs it supports on Maui, was the incessant ranting of recent transplants who have not done their homework and don't know what the heck they're talking about.

Before HC&S has even figured out what crops are feasible to replace sugarcane, these same whiners are panicking because oh no, we want hemp but it might interfere with marijuana, oh no, hemp might be burned like it is in other countries, oh no, they might put cows on the land and cows contribute to global warming, oh no, they might grow sorghum and burn the stubble like they do elsewhere, oh no, they might grow a GMO crop! And OMG, HC&S wants to retain its ability to get water to their very productive but desert-like 36,000 acres....oh no, can't let them continue to have water from the streams. THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER STOP COMPLAINING.

What do they want? (That has any basis in reality)

Anonymous said...

"Unlike today, they were doomed to poverty and base subsistence." and according to historical records worked less than 4 hours per day -- unlike today and unlike pre-contact Europeans many who were hit on the head and shanghaied.

Anonymous said...

But how many making 85 thousand (6 figures with benefits) who should be making 45,000 anywhere else?

Anonymous said...

OverPaid!!!! And that's why they owe favors.

Look at who gets charged and who doesn't. Look at the slap on the wrists and the BS hope (pohaku) programs to protect a family criminal. The light sentences and the guy you attacked and almost killed a guy with a machete walks with no charges!!!! WTF ova???

The county/PA/public defenders attorneys coached on who to go after and who not to (Mina Morita!!! and others). Look at who they cherry pick on the illegal TVR's and who they let go.

It's all a SHAM.

Anonymous said...

Have they solved a murder, cold case or Kauai's serial killer or have they solved all the Kokee arsons?

Pay should be based on performance and merit.

Anonymous said...

8:35 But how many making 85 thousand (6 figures with benefits)

If you mean pure native hawaiians the answer is 23

Anonymous said...

Oh so easy to be an anon troll. These attorneys mostly make less than rookie cops, no overtime, no Union protection, no nothing. Nobody getting rich as a deputy PA on Kauai (or anywhere else).

Anonymous said...

My grandmother came from Japan. She came from a farming family. She cherished her farming tools which she cleaned after the days work was done. She grew her own lettuce in Kekaha along with her string beans and lima beans. She took great pride in her garden. The only handout came from my grandfather when he married her. Nowadays we get plenty of do nothing grumblers. Whine and dine on someone's dime. Shut your mouth and work my Dad would tell me. You want something done, do it yourself.

Anonymous said...

Stay away and tell your friends and family to do the same.

Anonymous said...

As an attorney in ca. I can safely assure you that kauai attorneys are grossly underpaid. So to are kauai judges. Judges in my county start at 185k a year and a public defender or district attorney or county counsel pull in put to 200k

Anonymous said...

What's the population of your county? Yeah don't leave out the details because idiots on council and in the salary commission only wants to hear the BS that your county starts at 185K and that's your rationale for a pay raise on a island with a population of less than 70K.

Anonymous said...

What an idiot so your grandmother probably never had a job but probably collected social security.

What a hypocrite. You must be Catholic because Buddha no talk li dat.

Anonymous said...

A population of 70k means 70k possible lawsuits.

Anonymous said...

My grandmother raised 5 children by herself. She supported each one. No help from the government. She had great values. People like to link religion with posts. That is not possible. Too bad we do not have the same values, pride and prejudices. Of course, we have different grandmothers.

Anonymous said...

6:09 a.m. what an ass you are. those were plantation days. visualize yourself back then with the rich history in culture. raising 5 kids and putting them through further education.

this is a general statement, and if you look into history, this was the life on Kauai. Things has changed a lot. Still, respect the local culture.

Tell us a little about your family line. besides profiling others who post on Joan's Blog. (Catholic / Buddha)

Look at 1:19's post again. this person had nothing to do about bashing someone's else's post. but you just had to be an ass.

That's soooo cool of you! have a really great week!

Anonymous said...

6:09, obviously you don't know very much. "It's better to have people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubts." Maybe, that's beyond your comprehension. Mana was an old plantation camp, consisting mostly of Asians. To bonk someone because his/her ethnicity is beyond me. If she collected any SS benefits, it was probably survivor's benefits. That would have been very meager, given the wages then. Get a life and learn something because your mind is a cesspool.

Anonymous said...

According to Harvard Law School, assistant district attorneys earn starting salaries ranging from $35,000 to $90,000. Generally, a local prosecutor starts his career with a modest salary. As he gains seniority and experience within the prosecutor’s office, his salary rises. A salary survey in 2010 conducted by the National Association for Law Placement indicated that an entry-level local prosecuting lawyer earned a median salary of $50,000, and for between 11 and 15 years of experience the median salary was $81,500.

Anonymous said...

Love reading Melinda and Chuck's comments. Like sad lonely dogs with a bone.

Manawai said...

@ February 29, 2016 at 7:21 AM - Well 4 hours isn't going to pay for your cellphone, TV, pickup truck and surfboard. But you can do that today if you choose to live as the kanaka maole did.....in dirt floors and poverty. Go for it! It's what the homeless are doing right now on less than 4 hours! Fun, ya?

Anonymous said...

No one talked about ethnicity dumb ass re read the comment.

The person based people who don't work but probably has family and friends that leech the system like many of us people who was born and raised on Kauai or the state of Hawaii.

You assume that it was survivors benefits but contradict yourself by saying they put their children through school. How can you afford to put children through college with Lima beans, lettuce, and string beans without government assistance? Is that not whine and dining on someone else's dime?

Anonymous said...

Obviously Kauai's cases are a lot harder to prove because if you look at the stats and read the papers then you would wonder what kind of fluff plea deals and light sentencing is going on around here.

That's why they pay Kauai attorney's more because they are the best of the best and most talented that we have to retain their outstanding work.

Anonymous said...

Based on those numbers, one can assume that race and gender discrimination is a big problem on Kauai.

Anonymous said...

12:44 p.m. I'm 7:44 are your mixing 2 separate posts together and responding to both. 7:44 a.m. and 8:46 a.m.?

two separate points made by me and 8:46 a.m.

You said: "The person based people who don't work but probably has family and friends that leech the system like many of us people who was born and raised on Kauai or the state of Hawaii." my response to this statement is: yes it is true, it is happening, but that's a general statement you're making about not all of us leeching off of the system.

You said: "You assume that it was survivors benefits but contradict yourself by saying they put their children through school." 8:46 a.m. posted about survivor benefits, I (7:44 a.m.) posted about putting kids through school.

You said: "How can you afford to put children through college with Lima beans, lettuce, and string beans without government assistance?" Actually our grandparents did! that's the rich history of this island. our parents and grand parents sacrificed to put us through college on their measly plantation salaries.

Then again, based on sociological values you have, 8:46 a.m. has and me (7:44 a.m.), some families did and some didn't advance themselves which leads you to your generalized comments on leeching the system.

AGAIN!!!, 1:19 did not bash anyone with his/her comment.

But, you have a great week! Take care!

Anonymous said...

here's a sad fact I'm making an assumption on. 1:19, 6:09, 7:44 we are all local people living totally different lives, with different paths in our lives.

And! we verbally jabbing at each other.

Silly Know!

Anonymous said...

Read and re read that post and obviously the person is talking smack to whiners who take, take and take but don't give back.

That's why the system needs to be reformed.

Anonymous said...

You are correct but when people feel that they are above others then they need to realize that no one is above anyone on Kauai. You might think you are but really though.

It's exactly how the GMO and non GMO are acting.

Anonymous said...

I'm 3:21 p.m. I am not posting to be above anyone else.
Just different from you and your thoughts.
Only 1 person above all of us.
And I do agree with your last statement.
I guess that's why we keep on reading Joan's blog.

Anonymous said...

To be a prosecutor on kauai, a person has to move their family and leave their life and friends behind and come to this island isolated from their old life. Why? Cause kauai aint producing any lawyers. Maybe 1 a decade. And thats because your island's culture cant get a person through high school without being a parent or addicted to meth. You have to import your lawyers, whereas the mainland and oahu has homegrown talent. So quit your bitching about having to pay a premium and go get your law degree.

Anonymous said...

Just flown here assholes always think they better than everyone else.

Anonymous said...

Mauna Kea Trask, Craig Decosta, AL Castillo, Jon Chun, Mike Belles, Randal Valenciano, Ed Acoba, Tracy Murakami, Ian Jung, Lorna Nishimitsu, Teresa Tumbaga, Stephanie Sato, Galen Nakamura and Laurel Loo are a few of the lawyers who are "homegrown" and have better writing skills than the sorry asshole who wrote the comment at 6:30 a.m.

Anonymous said...

We can agree and we can agree to disagree on this blog.

This blog has been Great for Kauai. I've been reading and commenting on this blog since 2008.

Bradley Choquette said...

The indians had the best definition of sustainable farming. "We don't inherit the land from our ancestors, we barrow the land from our children and grand children." Farming Sustainability is about conserving, and recycling, resources so we can feed the plant a 1000 years from now.