Thursday, September 15, 2016

Musings: Earthjustice Plays the Race Card

With his most recent anti-agriculture complaint, Earthjustice attorney Paul Achitoff has proven he's not only despicable, he's downright desperate.

Unable to prevail in either the courts of law or public opinion, Achitoff has now resorted to playing the race card in his wild hair claim that the Hawaii Department of Agriculture (HDOA) and the state Agribusiness Development Corp. (ADC) are violating the civil rights of Native Hawaiians by allowing “toxic chemicals” to drift into their homes.
To help him along, three anti-GMO activists — Malia Chun, John Aana and Mercy Ritte — are prostituting their ethnicity and culture to advance a purely political agenda.

Chun, the Earthjustice poster child whose half-brother is County Councilman Mason Chock and whose mother is the racist Lorna Cummings Poe, and Aana, a retired firefighter who has endorsed Chock, are both Kauai residents. Ritte, whose father-in-law is Hawaii SEED board member Walter Ritte, lives on Molokai.

In his Sept. 14 complaint to the Environmental Protection Agency, U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Department of Agriculture, Achitoff contends that the two state agencies have failed to properly regulate the seed fields, which has “an unjustified disproportionate and adverse effect on Native Hawaiians in West Kaua‘i and on Moloka‘i.”

In its press release, Earthjustice really ramps it up, exceeding even Councilman Gary Hooser's propensity for hyperbole (emphasis added to point out the lies):

ADC facilitates the constant drift of pesticides and pesticide-laden dust into Native Hawaiian communities by leasing thousands of acres near them to heavy pesticide users, primarily genetically engineered seed companies, that spray tens of thousands of pounds of toxic pesticides each year.

Chun chimes in:

When you consider the danger of frequent, long-term exposure to industrial pesticides, some may consider this to be a form of genocide.”

Genocide? When no has died?

Aana also has no qualms about lying:

Allowing large-scale pesticide use without adequate protective measures is in direct opposition to our basic Hawaiian values of Aloha ʻĀina and our tradition of caring for Hawaiʻi’s natural resources and building healthy, sustainable communities.”

Without adequate protective measures? Come on, John. What about following the label, offering residents pre-spraying disclosure and implementing buffer zones?

Achitoff offers no proof that any of his claims of exposure, much less harm, are legit. Indeed, as I reported on Tuesday, the federal Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) found it unlikely that people are being exposed to pesticides at harmful levels in either the dust, air, groundwater, rivers or streams on the westside, in part because “modern pesticides degrade fairly rapidly in the environment.”

Achitoff, of course, is aware of that determination. But his MO is to lie and throw all sorts of shit at the wall. That way, Earthjustice can use its sensationalized, bogus claims as a fundraising tool. It's all so disgusting.

So Achitoff regurgitates tired old tropes like how “there are likely an average of 30 or more spray operations most days of the year on Kauai,” even though the ATSDR noted that “pesticides are not coincidentally applied to the same locations.” Yeah, one day they may spray a 10-x10 plot, and another day a 12x12 plot somewhere else.

Achitoff brings in Waimea Canyon Middle School and the Kekaha ditch and claims pesticides were found in an air and water samples without noting the quantities were barely detectable, and well-below safety threshholds.

There's plenty of land and water on Molokai and west Kauai, and plenty of loi that are not in production because nobody wants to do the work. Why don't Malia, Mercy and John get busy producing the agricultural nirvana that they envision, instead of trying to destroy viable ag?

Because they aren't actually trying to promote aloha aina, sustainable farming, or anything positive. Like Earthjustice, they're using legal harassment to impose demands they could not secure in the Legislature or court: suspend pesticide licenses, implement mandatory buffer zones, change state pesticide laws, revise the ADC lease process.

To that end, Earthjustice is also suing the state Health Department and HDOA over the Waimea ditch and fighting ADC over water diverted from the Waimea River. As I've previously noted, Earthjustice likes to sue government entities. That way it can collect its $650/hour fee — even if it does not fully prevail in the legal action — from taxpayers.

In a perfect example of his false self-righteousness, Achitoff pompously pontificates:

If anyone began spraying toxic chemicals so that they drifted into homes and schools in one of Hawaiʻi’s affluent neighborhoods, there would be outrage and it would be shut down. But not on Kauaʻi’s west side or on Molokaʻi, because the Native Hawaiians there don’t have the political clout. It’s shameful and it’s against the law.”

Actually, affluent neighborhoods – especially those in tony resort communities — use toxic chemicals all the time. It's how they keep their yards and homes free of insects and weeds.

As for what's shameful, that would be Paul's total disregard for truth and ethical behavior, and the way he's blatantly using Hawaiians to wage an anti-GMO war.

And Hawaiians wonder why people don't take their legitimate concerns seriously.

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

Why does Princeville reek of pesticide smells all the time if they are not used in affluent neighborhoods?

Bradley Choquette said...

The state should counter sue for defamation of character, harassment, and filing a frivolous lawsuit. Further, EJ should be paying the state's lawyers, not the other way around. Grrrr. They "throw enough shit" at the wall hoping some of that shit will stick. I hope it flies back on themselves.

Anonymous said...

Earthjustice radicals are famously active participants in "sue and settle" scam.

http://naturalgasnow.org/the-sue-and-settle-scam/

Anonymous said...

Wow, Joan, what a way to start my morning. Mick Jajjer had some songs for these people. "You can't always get what you want" and "Sympathy for the Devil".

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately there are a few misinformed Hawaiians as those named in this article. Most of the antis have moved here from elsewhere and continue to try to change our lifestyle here in the islands. The great majority of residents, including Hawaiians, embrace agriculture as one of our leading industries since ancient days of sugar. We don't buy into the bs that these protesters try to instill into the minds of the community.

Anonymous said...

Such BS, only target the ag companies, forget about all the other frequent and heavy uses of pesticides. Ag pesticide bad, but pesticides used in golf courses, peoples own yards, ect. receive no mention from all these groups.

You mentioned the $650 hr. fee earthjustice collects from taxpayers, can you explain how it works?

Joan Conrow said...

Anti-GMO groups like Earthjustice and Center for Food Safety can win even when they lose if they sue federal agencies because they can recover legal fees under the Equal Access to Justice Act.

In one case, Earthjustice successfully argued that it obtained "excellent results" — despite failing to secure the permanent injunctive relief it sought — and was therefore entitled to a "fully compensable fee." According to court documents, Earthjustice has submitted bills that included time spent on spent on clerical tasks, public relations, press releases, soliciting clients and other matters unrelated to litigation.

In some cases, legal fees in excess of $2 million have been awarded.

If they file in expensive places like the San Francisco Bay Area, they get to charge fees that are the going rate for that market. Earthjustice's Achitoff, for example, gets to charge $400 an hour more in the Bay Area than he does in Hawaii.

In one case, Earthjustice and CFS sought these “enhanced” hourly rates for counsel: Paul Achitoff, $650; Andrew Kimbrell, $650; Will Rostov, $575; Isaac Moriwake, $525; Greg Loarie, $450; George Kimbrell, $410; Kevin Golden, $410; Paige Tomaselli, $385; Kateryna Rakowsky, $350; and law clerks, $150.

Anonymous said...

Would be useful Joan to know what the Agrichemical corporate attorney's are getting paid. Can you provide that also so we can compare?

Anonymous said...

Please go back to where you came from, so many years ago.

Joan Conrow said...

Oh, I'm sorry, 9:14. Am I making you uncomfortable by saying things you'd rather not hear? Well suck it up.

@ 9:11. You seem to be missing the point. The companies pay for their own attorneys. The taxpayers are footing the bill for EJ and CFS.

Anonymous said...

Another reason to vote Mason OUT!

Anonymous said...

yeah ms. joan! you savage!

Anonymous said...

Oh, but EJ and CFS couldn't be bad; the corporations are are the evil ones!

EJ and CFS, like Councilman Hooser, are working hard for ALL of us taxpayers. So they say and so they must be true! Yes, indeed they are working very hard - to fleece the taxpayers money! What a great scam!

Totally frivolous lawsuit!

Anonymous said...

Joan - But would be useful to compare the price of a publicly subsidized private non profit activist attorney with a private no subsidized corporate Agrichemical attorney. You managed to find the numbers for one side, can you tell us the other?

Anonymous said...

As the novelty of the 2491 protests and marches wear off, these jackasses need to rekindle the fire. They need to create the controversy so they can continue to divide and conquer. It's a form of self preservation. The voters have spoken. Bynum, Furfaro are out. Joann and Gary are out. Mason is hanging on at the 7th place. Why do these pricks continue to incite hate? Why do they insist on ptting people against their own community? Why doesn't Mason use his self proclaimed leadership expertise and work with bringing people together, starting with his own mom and sister? Because they are not interested in resolution, only conflict. Conflict assures job security for Earthjustice and all their lawyers. I hope the State will fight this to the end, and seek legal fees from Earthjustice. They should not back down and settle. The native Hawaiians are being used and they can't even see it. I hope that the Super 6 wins and they vote to repeal 2491. This would be a good start to stop the madness. The people need to stand up and speak. they cannot let the future be dictated by the Achitoffs, Chocks, Hoosers, Yukimuras and Chuns of the world. It's time that the people of Kauai fight back. And it starts at the polls in November.

**

Anonymous said...

That's called the Plantation Mentality. It hasn't gotten Hawiians very far. Institutionalized victims with Stockholm Syndrome.

Anonymous said...

A bunch of low life locals trying to make a name for themselves. I am born and raised here on Kauai and I never heard of these clowns till 2491. Another case of locals being corrupted by rich haoles from the mainland. Malia, John, Mason, Klayton, Gary, Joann do us all a favor and move to the mainland where it is so much better. Sick and tired of listening to your bullshit and take Geoff with you.

John Kauai said...

Speaking of glyphosate and attorneys, perhaps folks would like to check out the number of lawyers advertising for class-action suit clients because glyphosate is suppose to cause non-Hodgkin lymphoma. A search on "glyphosate lawsuit lawyers" returns a suit being filed in Hawaii seeking potential clients.

This should be filed under "old news".

I do not dispute Joan's point about lawyers. It is very profitable.

Anonymous said...

ditto on 10:03am

Manuahi said...

I'm sure if one falls into a vat of glyphosate all sorts of malady's will arise. But at the manini amounts that credentialed pesticide experts are able to detect anywhere, there's no problem.

Anonymous said...

Comment posted today on the Civil Beat article about the lawsuit:

By Kenneth Conklin:

The lawsuit should demand damages from Haloa, the Hawaiian god whose exhalation creates the tradewinds that blow the pesticides toward those houses. If Haloa would inhale as much as he exhales, there would be no disparate impact. But, like Bill Clinton, I guess he doesn't inhale.

Anonymous said...

Geoff Morris will be on KCCR today at 4. He posted on Facebook "Tune into KKCR today at 4. Trust me." I wonder what this jackass will say. I wonder if he will play victim after barging into a Chamber event without paying and terrorizing many attendees. I wonder if he will cry about he being kicked out of the hotel. I wonder if he will take any responsibility for committing trespass, harassment and possibly other charges. I wonder how many of his mindless followers will call to thank him, and praise him, and make him feel like some sort of God. I wonder how the hosts of the show will handle the lies, and his call for hatred and acts of violence. I will never know because I will not waste my time listening to this asshole. My experience with KKCR tells me that the hosts will condone his terroristic behavior and add to the division of our community. Life is too short to waste valuable time on this piece of shit.

**

Anonymous said...

That guy for EJ is a sharp cookie. Make money what ever way he can. It does not help us one bit when we have to pay. We should designate red shirt you pay the tax. Blue shirt no need pay tax because they after you. The red shirt are all the rich folks, they can spare a few bucks, have EJ collect form them.

Anonymous said...

@11:29
lol. Good one.

Anonymous said...

12:56. That is the show hosted by Jimmy Trujillo and Jonathan Jay, two antiGMO haters. Who else would give the Reaper air time? They call themselves community radio. What a joke.

Anonymous said...

Felicia and Mason was at the Chamber meeting and sat there. Looks like they were part of Geoff's tactics.

Anonymous said...

https://www.facebook.com/mike.steele.1914/videos/10208952670948979/?pnref=story

Anonymous said...


This is all getting ugly, very very ugly. I can see and sympathize with both sides, I have friends and family who are both pro and anti GMO. I think the Reaper guy is a total idiot and an embarrassment to our island. That being said I feel like I do need to stand up for my friend Malia. I don't know if this lawsuit has any merit, but I do know Malia and her entire family very well. They are good people, deeply rooted in their culture and traditions. Malia, who is a single mother has built herself a beautiful home on Hawaiian Homelands in Kekaha. It's something she is very proud of and works hard at two jobs to support. It's unfortunate that her house is backed up against the GMO fields and there is a lot of spraying going on. I have no idea of how much and what the effects are, but I know she's fighting for the love of her two kids and that's it. She's worried about her kids gettimg sick all the time. Malia runs programs educating native Hawaiian students in Hawaiian practices and farming. She has had a hand in helping to send many native Hawaiian students to college who may have not have gone without her help. I just feel I need to stand up for her, I really don't want to get involved in any controversy but I don't like a friends name getting slammed when she is a good person in the community. Mahalo.

Anonymous said...

Malia built next to a farm and now she is complaining about agricultural practices. Stupid.

Anonymous said...

Like people who build next to an airport and then complain about noise. Or build next to sugar and complain about cane burn

Anonymous said...

People do know before hand what they are getting into. Only certain groups of people try and hide what they are selling.

Anonymous said...

But I thought only white people didn't like pesticides and GMO?

Anonymous said...

Showing your ignorance, 9:38. Sugar Plantations was the major industry that employed locals and the many who migrated here. Hawaiians Institutionalized with Stockholm syndrome? Idiot, what drug are you on? Typical, disrespectful outsider who feels entitled to change the lifestyle. Go home.

Anonymous said...

She can give up or sell the home and go back on the list for Anahola.

Anonymous said...

You might disagree with some of EJ's facts, but that letter had a lot of truth in it.

Anonymous said...

11:11 Good friend or not, there's a good way to solve a problem or you suffer the consequences. Aligning yourself, your family and brother Mason Chock w Hooser and Bynum and passing an Invalid Bill 2491 and being a fame whore is not Pono, Hawaiian or not. Going Switzerland with Hooser and Fern is the wrong way to solve the problem. Getting proof or evidence to back up all your accusations would be the first step. Be humble, no accuse, until you get all your facts straight sista. Sad but I no feel sorry. Auwe redshirts including you Malia, you sure no look sick to me.

Anonymous said...

I commend 11:11 for that heartfelt post ,and find the ensuing posts quite harsh and vitriolic. The comments go to the very root of the divisiveness.

I do not know Malia, and do not align at all with her (CFS, EJ, HAPA, ad nauseum) anti-GE rhetoric, but I am sure she does not deserve such vitriol.

Anonymous said...

Here's the facts, 7:04 AM, Achitoff is an expert at using his wiles to connive others into supporting The Cause; in this case, anti-GMO/anti-Hawaii ag. I know; I was once beguiled by him.

Cleverly using unfounded, or even debunked allegations as facts, he puts together a complaint of injustice that those who aren't familiar with the true circumstances/facts would read in horror.

This whole anti-ag movement is a cult, as evidenced by Ashley Lukens/Food Babes' performances last night at UHM. They use emotion and pseudoscience to manipulate the gullible and needy (but too lazy to fact-check), feeding their fears and need to blame someone (anyone but themselves) for their problems. Their poor health, their obesity, their acne, asthma, appendicitis, etc. must be the fault of big, bad INDUSTRY, or GOVERNMENT, or AGRICULTURE. And it sure promotes a money-making agenda.

Anonymous said...

That's it exactly, 8:08 AM!!!!
Thank you.

Anonymous said...

First of all they need to prove harm. All evidence proves to the contrary. The State should not settle on this one, they should fight them all the way. It's time they start paying.

Anonymous said...

Are Syngenta and Dupont more noble because they're supposed to be money makers?

Anonymous said...

I commend 11:11 for that heartfelt post ,and find the ensuing posts quite harsh and vitriolic. The comments go to the very root of the divisiveness.

I do not know Malia, and do not align at all with her (CFS, EJ, HAPA, ad nauseum) anti-GE rhetoric, but I am sure she does not deserve such vitriol.

Anonymous said...

8:50 What about all the vitriol Malia has directed at the seed companies and their employees? What goes around comes around.

Anonymous said...

Who wants to live in that shit hole area where most of the drugs and crimes are committed and protected. They need Phillipine President Duterte to clean up that neighborhood and the island of Kauai.

John Kauai said...

9:23:

All evidence proves to the contrary.

"All" depends on which sources you use.

I think that just the fact that a huge number of law firms have jumped on to the glyphosate lawsuit bandwagon would give one pause to make such a claim. Those lawyers are in it for the money and these guys don't get into it unless they "smell blood".

Sometimes they lose as in A Civil Action
Sometimes they win: Erin Brockovich

But these examples are romanticized movie pablum and don't show you who these lawyers really are. If I were to place a bet, it would be on the "sharks".

The Oligarchs will call these lawsuits "frivolous" and they will get their MSM outlets (does that include TGI ;-) to repeat that meme over and over and over again giving the impression that you and I (as little guys) are somehow being hurt financially. (as in the price of food is going to go up or food quality will go down or farmers will be run out of business).

I only know one employee who works on the West Side. I like him. I don't think he is "hiding" anything. I'm sure he is following all the rules and regulations promulgated by the EPA. Yet, I also know that the farmer on the radio yesterday describing the ballooning number of cases of Non-Hodgkin lymphoma in his small farming town north of OKC has proven to be a bonanza for OKC oncology clinics. New ones opening everyday. (A claim you should reasonably question.)

My point is: "The 'Truth' is murky". And I'm sure that Malia is working very hard to "prove" harm.

I find it funny that you not require the chemical companies to "prove" no harm or to accept that a mere 25 years of study actually "proves" anything. Just look at the Global Warming example -- the oil companies "knew" longer than that of the consequences. Or Tobacco.

People are scared. You don't make them less scared by telling them they are "just stupid".

Anonymous said...

What on this good earth did some of your parents teach you---so mean, ugly words that can hurt. This is the reason so many local people don't stand up for what they believe in! The tough, strong and independent can do it, but many cannot---so they stay at home and pretend that all's good and wait for others to speak for them and take the shit! Talk about divisiveness and the causes for it----read, right here. I don't know Malia, but she has a cause and reasons for her efforts---- she doesn't pick on individuals and talk shit about them, calling them names, and questioning their character---she has been focused on the spraying right out her back door and the test done on her children.

Anonymous said...

For centuries, the Native Hawaiian food system was rooted in the ahupua‘a land  management system, which organized natural resource use and access around land
divisions that generally followed watershed boundaries from mauka (inland) to makai (sea).  This system  allowed optimal use of resources and ecosystem services over short distances, and many  generations to survive and thrive.          Captain Cook’s arrival to Hawai‘i in 1778 ushered in a new era of agriculture focused on  pesticide‐intensive plantation crops for export, such as sugar and pineapple.  This use depleted the soil, polluted water sources, and contributed to the decline of Hawai‘i’s food selfsufficiency. 

Anonymous said...

Thank you another stupid anti-GMO comment from Redshirt John not local Kauai wannabe. Go fear the unknown and make everyone else paranoid. Get a life.

Joan Conrow said...

People are scared because they've been intentionally frightened, John.

Surely Malia, Earthjustice, CFS, Surfrider, Hawaii SEED, Hooser, etc. -- all of them working hard to "prove harm" — would have found some by now. They've had a lot of time and money to do it, but they've come up with nothing. Indeed, when government agencies come out and say there is no harm, they bury those reports.

If you think the number of personal injury attorneys wanting to pile on are an indication of evidence of harm, you really need to learn more about the legal profession.

You are also lacking an understanding of how pesticide use is determined for safety, as well as GMOs.

Anonymous said...

September 16, 2016 at 6:08 AM
“People do know beforehand what they are getting into. Only certain groups of people try and hide what they are selling.”
Malia can sue the seller/lessor (Hawaiian Homelands ?) if this was an issue and not disclosed in the real estate documents. She can get back everything she paid and possibly punitive damages. But then, maybe she needs to have this as a cause for her own self-glorification. If she were truly worried about being poisoned, what kind of woman would let her children be exposed to it? She may do some nice things, but she’s also a fraud.

Anonymous said...

MedicineNet.com says, “Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma is a type of cancer that originates in the lymphatic system. It is estimated to be the sixth most common cancer in the United States.”

So that farmer you were listening to, John Kauai, ties lymphoma this to a small farming community when it is happening outside of farm communities as well? Don’t try to act like a centrist in this argument when you obviously twist facts to suit your Anti” cause. My father who never worked anywhere near a farm died of it.

John Kauai said...

FWIW: the reference to the glyphosate lawsuits was not intended to "prove" anything. It is just another data point for people to consider. Does the fact that Fox paid Gretchen Carlson $20 million "prove" anything? Not really.

Why is it so difficult to try to negotiate a "center"?

I am not anti-GMO any more than I am anti-stem cell. They are just technologies that should be used judiciously. They promise huge advantages which if not utilized correctly could possibly cause huge problems.

If it appears that I am anti-GMO, it is more because the majority of comments are so emphatic with declarations that there is nothing wrong with GMO (which I have not argued other than its reliance on certain pesticides) and the use of pesticides at all. When I talk about a specific pesticide, it gets mixed-up with being anti-GMO.

There is a (purported) correlation between the use of glyphosate and the rise in both autism and cilliac disease. There is no assurance that correlation proves cause. However, I find the complete confidence often expressed here that glyphosate could positively, absolutely NOT be the cause to be no more satisfying than claims that it is. I support further discovery.

Why is that such an evil thing?

John Kauai said...

6:08am

Why do people still live in Flint Michigan?
Why do people still live next to the coal mines of West Virginia?
Why haven't some members of the Biloxi-Chitimacha-Choctaw tribe moved from their Louisiana Island?

You'd have to ask Malia.

It is interesting that you believe she can sue for damages when it appears she can hardly pay her mortgage. We've been talking about lawyers and their predatory nature. Perhaps you can recommend a lawyer to her that will take her case "pro bono".


12:08pm
I'm just telling you what I heard on the radio. -IF- glyphosate exposure is a cause of non-Hodgkin lymphoma (as declared by WHO) it is hardly the only cause. What made you think that I said it was?

Anonymous said...

Blogger Joan Conrow said...
"......You are also lacking an understanding of how pesticide use is determined for safety, as well as GMOs. "

September 16, 2016 at 11:49 AM

maybe you forget that industry influence on regulators is significant and often runs counter to the health & well being of people and the environment

Anonymous said...

John Kauai -- Joan is right about the legal profession and lawsuits. Don't you realize that many of the lawsuits brought now are settled, meaning they are not won, nor lost. Well, except by the lawyers, who invariably win.

These "environmental groups" file suit, making all sorts of allegations and then after the judge is sick and tired of hearing and reading all the crap, he tells them to negotiate it out, usually with a mediator. The entity being sued has a choice: despite the facts being on their side, they realize they will spend many times more litigating their defense than settling. So they settle.

Look at the Stop Cane Burning lawsuit. No legal basis, complete bullshit. But settled.

Joan Conrow said...

Joan ConrowSeptember 16, 2016 at 2:09 PM
It's true that industry influences regulators, as do supposed consumer advocacy groups and the people they rile up/rally. Each is protecting its own interests.

And John Kauai, there's a lot of "center" in these comments, this blog and the issue. Don't blame others if due to your own waffling you can't find it.

Anonymous said...

John, why do people still live in Hawaii?

This place has become so overrun with activists who are so misguided and have so much time on their hands they are making life miserable for the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

John Kauai is the this blog's expository Floogie Bird.

John Kauai said...

OK Joan, there is "a lot of 'center'"
Then why are you (and others) apparently so mad at me?

How did I (mis)phrase my point that you (and other "anonymous") think I was anti-GMO when I did not say anything about GMO in this thread and I don't think I've said anything specifically referencing GMO for quite some time. (I'm not sure how long it has been, but I have recognized for at least several months [I'd like to think years, but the mind plays tricks] that saying "GMO" just invites controversy w/o any advancement of discussion. [where "discussion" is suppose to support finding a consensus.]}

As far as "waffling", exactly what does that mean? That I must come down on either the "Blue" or the "Red" side without reservation? (I should also put "side" in quotes since the questions being examined are manifold and hardly ether/or.) I think I have been consistent in trying to negotiate an amelioration of the animosity often expressed in these comments.

I do not believe I've called anyone an idiot (or other name). Nor have I suggested anyone "go back to where they came from". If I have, I apologize.

Your blog represents an important voice on Kauai. The discussion it stimulates among Kauai residents is important and I appreciate it. I do not believe I have ever said "You Are Wrong" (and if any of my posts sound like I'm saying that please enlighten me), but I have provided information that (I think) allows your readers to further examine their biases so that we might all "just get along".

Anonymous said...

I looked at John Kauai's link to the non Hodgkin study and saw that it refers to occupational exposure. Second it was a survey of papers not a study of the effect of roundup and the incidence of non Hodgkin lymphoma it also uses the term positively associated. Positive association is not causation. If causation was proven round up would have a whole different label. The Phenoxy herbicide (2-4-d) and the glyphosate referenced in the study is readily available for non agricultural use.

There are agricultural chemicals that are dangerous in a mist or vapor form and respirators are required for the application of these chemicals. Both 2-4-d and roundup do not require respirators. They do require protective equipment when dealing with the concentrate. 2-4-D more than roundup. And some form of minimal protective equipment when applying the herbicide. Shoes, long sleeves etc.

Using the word cause is misrepresenting what the study is saying.

Anonymous said...

Haha! John California! You're really full of California Crap.

Freaking labor workers on this island is not worth the $15 an hour. I say you called their stupidity / hopelessness out.

You THINK you write like you're on the fence, but the readers, I guess are stupid to read your long winded posts as a red man.

John Califonia, you like get along! Promote "let the farmers farm, conventional n organically." If the general public don't like it! Stay away from the agricultural lands.

As of today, corn is still planted and no one died from pesticides / GMO. (Point is! Everyone has a place on Kauai)

Everyone / business has the basic rights to do what they have to do to on kauai to survive / get ahead / succeed / fail on this island. But guys like you enjoy sticking your two cents into anything n everything now that you're here.

John California! I saw your bull shit from your very first post. Thats why i gave you the name Califonia, everyone else has figured you out now.

You like get along! Read the post that everyone told you to KISS (keep it simple stupid) but NOOOOO! you kept your Califonia ways.

Have a great weekend John California!

Anonymous said...

Waffling: British usage: speak or write, especially at great length, without saying anything important or useful

Anonymous said...

Well, John Kauai, this is the line that did it for me. It's not that I'm "mad" at you, it's annoying that you write such falsely naive statements. Sometimes I think you just throw things out there to be controversial. Or maybe you're just not as smart as I thought you were.

"I think that just the fact that a huge number of law firms have jumped on to the glyphosate lawsuit bandwagon would give one pause to make such a claim. Those lawyers are in it for the money and these guys don't get into it unless they "smell blood"."

No, John, they smell MONEY.

Anonymous said...

In spite of Hooser, JoAnn and Mason.....Kauai is still the best place to live and raise a family.
This island has a sense of pride and care. The people are hardworking, law-abiding and wish well for their fellows.
The vitriol that some say is getting "out of hand" is caused by the the creators of the 2491 mess. Hooser has blamed GMOs and herbicides for every malady under the sun. JoAnn and Mason just stand by and do not try to bring some truth to the table.
Hooser shifted his Anti-GMOs diatribes to an Anti-pesticide stand. Unfortunately for Hooser, most of the people saw this sneaky twist.
The conversation on Ag will continue. From the first loud mouth Haoles that moved here and complained about the Cane harvesting smoke and ashes to today's alleged dust and herbicide drift.
There will always be the outsiders, who come here and just want a nice place to live and could care less about history, jobs, locals, dogs, housing etc that local lifestyle involves.
Mason is unfortunately many leaves of lettuce short of a full sandwich, he can be excused because of his intrinsic lack of mental acumen. JoAnn and Gary are smaht, li' dat..no excuses for them. JoAnn has always been an educated Hippy and will always be in bed with the rich newcomers.
Gary, will always be where he can find fame and money. His Kauai journey has has shown him to be 1- A big time Land Developer and then a big time Anti- Development guy 2- A big time Small Business Owner and then and Anti-Small business advocate 3- He was once an honest good guy and now he lives on lies, is deceitful, seeks glamour in all of the wrong places and could care less for the hard working local population.
Vitriol and All...........Da Hoos, JoAnn and Mason should be gone and their legions of hanger-ons, weird costumed lingerers, high-nosed Haole controllers, law suit hungry ambulance chasing attorneys, dumb-shit Hippy fadists and the rest of their ilk should either shut-up or move else where.
If Big Ag stopped today..these whiny shit-birds will find a new "cause" tomorrow.
Vote Da Hoos, JoAnn and Mason out...........let's live in harmony.

But then again, we have real whiny peeps like John Kauai giving the ol' one/two when he actually lives in West Bumfield, Pennsylvania. C'mon Johnny, learn a little about the hard-working people on Kauai before you jam on in with your lexicons of Acronyms...STFU.

Anonymous said...

You still smoking cigarettes, pretending they aren't bad for you? Thinking it's all just a conspiracy?

Anonymous said...

8:36 You still avoiding vaccines pretending they're bad for you thinking it's all a conspiracy?

Anonymous said...

I can't believe how little compassion there is for Malia's situation.
It's Malia's fault for building her house next to fields that get sprayed?
and there's no proof that any of the chemicals do any harm so she and her two kids should have nothing to worry about...right?

Anonymous said...

You still painting your house with lead paint ?

Anonymous said...

lead paint illegal.

Anonymous said...

Still drinking the water in Kokee because that's what Aunty and Uncle did?

Anonymous said...

Pesticides will have the same history as lead paint, cigarettes, and other products sold to the public and viciously defended as safe but later proven unsafe.

Anonymous said...

Still driving a car?

Anonymous said...

Still repeating this stupid phrase when arguing with each other?

Anonymous said...

Our Council will be better with Derek on board.
The Council is the real power on this island. They may act like children, but they know that they are the beginning and end of all LAW and MONEY.

JoAnn has been in the inner circle for so long that she embodies Coco Chanel's quote “Don't spend time beating on a wall, hoping to transform it into a door. ”
She beats the same drum...no housing for the people, tax everybody and have everybody take the bus and live in an apartment, except me and my many rich friends.

Mason, poor thing----“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.” And “He had just about enough intelligence to open his mouth when he wanted to eat, but certainly no more.”

And then there's Gary---“Corrupt politicians make the other ten percent look bad.” “Bullshit makes the flowers grow and that is beautiful” “Lies are like cockroaches, for every one you discover there are many more that are hidden.” “Controversy is a last resort for the talentless.”
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.

Vote early and vote often.....but let's leave Mason, Gary and JoAnn to their enormous pensions by voting them OUT of office. (They will receive beaucoup bucks as former Council members. Gary'll get over 100 Grand per year, so will JoAnn...Mason will get less, but don't forget he already sued the County a few years ago and put 100s of thousands in his pocket) Hard to believe ...that we have a man who don't pay no taxes, a man who sues the County and gits big dough..both on the Council at the same time.
Great Big Bloated Bynum Balls of shame and dishonor, we sure do elect unscrupulous, deceitful and unprincipled people to Council. Maybe Democracy isn't such a good idea.

Anonymous said...


I proclaim myself a socialist asshole know-it-all and demand that everyone wears a motorcycle helmet in a automobile. I 100% guarantee that 30.000 american lives would be saved a year... And probably more!!!

I don't really give a shit about automobile riders, I just like being a passive aggressive busy body for my own selfish amusement!

Tell me that ain't your style Zwieble?

I'm serious John, ( and what bums me out is that sometimes you actually have a clue!)

Anonymous said...

Re 9:06 am
"Pesticides will have the same history as lead paint, cigarettes, and other products sold to the public and viciously defended as safe but later proven unsafe."

First off nobody is saying pesticides are safe for drinking or smoking or painting their kitchens with. Pesticides are chemicals that are treated with respect and precautions. But if we remove every life threatening product or service from existence then let's start with electricity, gas, bathroom cleaners, bleaches, anti bacterials, dish soap, laundry soap, aspirin, and every other drug that if not taken by the prescribed amount becomes fatal and the list goes on and on.

Anonymous said...

Echo 9:33 AM.

Anonymous said...

Zero amount of pesticides should be introduced into our food chain. That's just common sense.

John Kauai said...

8:19

Please point to anything, anywhere on any post to this blog where I demanded anyone do anything?

Everything I posted in response to this particular blog was about glyphosate and only about glyphosate.

We used some glyphosate just a couple of days ago in an area where we did not have any alternative. I do not think it is going to be effective, but we'll see. I plan on using it again on some other areas where it had been effective a couple of years ago. However, given Huber/Streit results, I have concerns that it may not work this time.

The use of glyphosate correlates to:
-- an increase in celiac disease
-- an increase in autism
-- an increase in CKDu (Chronic Kidney Disease)
-- an increase in non-Hodgkin Lymphoma
-- an increase in IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome)

As many are so willing to state over and over and over again, correlation does not prove causation. I did not claim proof. I did not advocate for a ban. I did not tell you what to do. My goal was solely to provide you with additional information so you might consider other actions.

I have been highly successful in elimination of guinea grass by covering the area with black plastic for several months (which killed everything) and after removing the plastic keeping it clear using a pickax on the guinea grass. This is nothing more than a data point for you to consider to see if it might work for you.

If you'd rather choose a different approach -- it is your property; they are your weeds; it is your child getting covered in glyphosate (I'm being hyperbolic on this last point OK?) -- I'm not telling you what to do. I don't know your weeds. I don't know your crop. I don't know your neighbors. It is your choice.

OTOH, you might want to consider all those "high-powered" law firms that are "smelling MONEY (so I called it blood, what's the diff?)", might decide that you have enough assets to go after. In which case, does it matter whether or not glyphosate is "harmless"? Do you really want to have a huge legal bill protecting Monsanto? (It isn't a question of right or wrong.)

9:06 says, "Pesticides are chemicals that are treated with respect and precautions." Are they being treated with respect? I'm only pointing to holes in the affirmative answer.

Anonymous said...

" Pesticides are chemicals that are treated with respect and precautions." Are you aware they are spraying Round Up in all of the parks on Kauai and most of the schools?

Anonymous said...

6:47 And! What's your point!

Everyone getting sick n growing extra fingers n toes. Or you want this information to be a precautionary principle thing.

Or, you're saying there's no evidence yet.

Just checking because you left your comments to be open ended just like j. California thinks he does.

Like I said before. Name the ones who died from pesticides and I'll tell you the chemical / drug deaths.

Thefts / stabbing / suicide / domestic violate "BOOM" head / heart exploding all chemical related. And! Only in the anti dream land will chemicals go away.

Have a great week you all dreamers!

Anonymous said...

Chemicals are here to stay. The World made gunpowder and the containers we love to drink from with Chemicals. To all the beautiful Wahines, what would you do without makeup and the like. To all the Buffed up gentlemen, what would you do without the stuff for making you big and strong. To all the Hot people on the island, what would we do without Air Conditioning. To all the People with Electronics, what would you do without your computer, cell phone, I-pad and the like. To all the Surfers, Runners, sports people, what would we do without chemicals. Resin, rubber and the glue used are all chemicals.

We are hypocrites. What, I can but you no can.

Anonymous said...

People want to expose themselves to harmful substances thats their business. However, look around, there are an awful lot of obese kids walking around under 10 year old girls and boys with tits and premature puberty. You can thank hormones, and GMO food for that.

Anonymous said...

7:46 Crazy Haole, I thank you for nothing. Go back to where you came from.

Anonymous said...

@2:53 pm

Do you leave bug spray and chlorine bleach on the floor for your grandchildren to play with.

Just pointing to the stupidity in your affirmative question.

John Kauai said...

7:48

Your claim about GMO food is much, much too broad. It would be better to try to narrow your point to something that can be shown to be true or can at least have some data to support your point.

Some of the hormones you are talking about actually are by-products of certain plastic manufacture as discussed in this NPR story .

The hormones -may- be introduced in specific GMOs (salmon for example), but they also show up in beef and dairy (which are not GMO) which are injected with them to make the cow grow faster or produce more milk. rBST is grown in E.coli so the bacteria is GMO'd, but you might consider how penicillin is produced before condemning all GMO.

Concerning obesity, while some GMOs may be involved, it is mostly the fault of the empty calories of highly processed food. Read the list of chemicals on the side of the box. As an example (although not directly related to hormones or obesity) we do not purchase anything with MSG in it because we react to it so badly. (And if we go to No. 1 Chinese, we know we will "pay" for it later.)

Bottom line: GMO is just a technology and has a lot in common with research on stem cells which promises cures for cancer. Whether "good" or "bad" results depends on what is created with the technology. (Unfortunately, it is difficult to point to a "good" GMO but here is a list of 4 interesting GMOs and a warning on the evil of large corporations -- a completely different topic.)

If there is any hope in resolving the conflict between the "reds" and "blues" it is important that we narrow the focus of the discussion to those things that actually cause problems.

Anonymous said...

John there is action to resolve the "reds" and "blues", it's called the "general election". The last 3 "reds" on the Council, Hooser, Yukimura, and Chock will see their fate and I believe at least two of them will be out. All your other blabber needs to be addressed by the Federal Government, who have agencies like the EPA and FDA that have "professional expertise" to determine fact from fiction. The internet and you have a lot of fiction that you like to quote. The only way to settle that dispute is the Federal Government addressing your points. If they don't, then you have fiction or lies or accusations, which is not grounds for action by any State or County Agency. Bullshit is Bullshit. Get over this "kumbaya between reds and blues", it ain't happening.

Anonymous said...

7:46 a.m. "looking around" us, but then again, like you said, that's their choice to be obese, with tits and in puberty.

question to you. Is this on the westside only? Island wide? State wide? Nationally or world wide except for the poverty stricken countries. Let's narrow down your statement.

Great you point out the facts (by your standards). Pointing out your facts here helps out nothing. Go get a job with the state of Hawaii or county of Kauai as the food nutrition expert and start educating the public on the do's and don't of obesity and it's correlations to GMO's.

don't forget to correlate your information to hereditary, financial standings and racial profiling too.

BTW John California Zwiebel, as 8:19 stated. which way do you spell your (true) last name. What a way to finish your last post with your last paragraph (Mr. fence sitter, NOT!). The discussion has been going on for 4 years now. You know the answer by looking at the big picture on the life on Kauai. The subject is done with it's discussion, go on with your lives, red's goes to their side, blue's to your side. This is the actions that is going on before 2491 and it will continue on after the Loosher get's out of office (hoping).

Look! GMO is still being raised, people still scared of life / pesticides. 4 years later, we are still at square 1. This should mean, we all have our place in paradise, and life will / should continue on.

Have a great week!

Joan Conrow said...

John, no hormones are introduced into GE salmon. It's a gene from another fish that makes it grow fast.

You have trouble pointing to a "good" GMO, so let me do it for you. The salmon, which consumes less feed to reach market size than other farmed salmon and can be grown close to population centers, both of which have environmental benefits, meets my definition of a good GMO. So does the ring spot resistant papaya and Bt brinjal, both of which confer resistance without pesticides and give farmers control of the seeds.

John Kauai said...

I was trying to point out that arguing about GMO is a waste of time.

The rainbow papaya is always brought up as the one example that proves all GMO is not bad. I was aware of it.

We could also mention "Golden Rice", but then we are faced with the uncomfortable fact that it still isn't available for human consumption and even if it were, it isn't clear that the people with Vitamin A deficiencies will be able to absorb the vitamin A.

The salmon has a gene from another fish that produces a growth hormone. Yes, it is a fish hormone, but does that mean for sure it does not affect humans?

Bt used in organic operations can supposedly be washed off. When a plant creates its own Bt, we eat it and that may be linked to leaky gut syndrome.

"Good"/"Bad", I'm not taking sides. I'm pointing to these objections so that they can be addressed individually and readers can be made aware of the nuance involved in deciding whether or not they, as individuals, want to consume these products. I am not calling for all GMOs to be banned. But then, neither am I giving all GMOs a clean bill of health. I'm not even telling people "don't consume this [particular] product". The GMO salmon has many advantages to it, I am not denying them.

Why is it that any response to my posts always accuses me of being anti-GMO? Each and every product created though the use of GMO technology must be examined for its qualities completely on its own.

If we can be specific once more, the GMO soybeans that depend on glyphosate are probably just fine to eat -- if ALL the glyphosate can be removed from them. The question isn't GMO but glyphosate. In any case, weeds have now developed resistance to glyphosate and farmers are using more chemicals on some crops than non-GMO varieties of those crops. Even so, there may still be advantages to growing the GMO variety because of circumstances unique to each grower such as increase yield.

Arguing about GMO itself is a waste of time.

Anonymous said...

@11:19 am.

Didn't Obama pay a 30 billion dollar debt to Africa year before last with GMO corn. It was in the news.

Oh and John speaking of salmon, they introduced a salmon gene into strawberries so it could survive the frost. Almost all strawberries are GMO.

Ok enough of picking on John K, he finally got it right with his first and last sentence.



Anonymous said...

12:39 p.m. I don't think so. John Zwiebel last sentence "arguing about GMO itself is a waste of time." Yes it is. But his topic is still about glyphosate , which was within his discussion and mine.

Which is part of his 2:53 comments and on purpose he left it out of his last post. What a snake.

People like me will not forget the divide lying loosher did. Zwie the educator knows how to play with words playing verbal boxing trying dam hard not to get verbally hit.

Zwie why don't you say "arguing about pesticides itself is a waste of time."

You use it, why not say it. Hypocrite!

Oh! Have a great Tuesday gang!

Anonymous said...


Hey Zwieble, (and thanks for coming clean)

I would not have busted your real name out except that you were calling an "Anonymous " out last weeks/ months for not using "real name" and that chapped my hide Johny Zwieble makin like Johnny Kauai....That dear Z-man has to be called out.

Thank you 9:46 am ,I think "fence sitter" is more apropriate than my "I'm a socialist " speech .. But I think you got my gist.

And to the commenter that thought he lived in "West Bumfeld" Pennsylvania just makin HooHoo,,,, that cracked me up,(and my Army buddy from PA) but no, John is very much one of us.


Anonymous said...

John said "The salmon has a gene from another fish that produces a growth hormone. Yes, it is a fish hormone, but does that mean for sure it does not affect humans? "

Not any more than if you were eating the ocean pout or Chinook salmon the genes were taken from.

Your comment about Bt crops is similarly ignorant. http://ucbiotech.org/answer.php?question=31

You come across as anti-GMO because you use the antis' unscientific arguments.

Anonymous said...

What? John Kauai is John Zwiebel. Here I thought I was talking to my school buddy Johny Kauai. Zwieb you bum! Ok, no more commenting on either posts for me. I just hate frauds.

Anonymous said...

12:39. There are no GMO strawberries on the market

Anonymous said...

@ 8:53

Aww and here I thought I could get my omega 3 and vitamin c from one source.