Saturday, October 22, 2016

Musings: Water Diversion Vandalized

Shortly after two Kauai residents circulated inflammatory emails about a new water pipeline, a dam diverting water to two Kauai Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC) hydro plants was vandalized.
Because the action targeted a utility — KIUC Chief Executive Officer David Bissel termed it “a deliberate sabotage of Kaua‘i’s electrical infrastructure” — local law enforcement officials are treating it as an act of domestic terrorism. They have called upon the FBI to investigate.

Given the extent of the vandalism, police suspect more than one person was involved. They apparently used a jackhammer or impact drill to chip a hole about 10 feet wide by 1 foot deep in the concrete, so that water flows through the dam, rather than over it and into a ditch. They also made multiple vertical cuts across the face of the dam.
In the process, concrete rubble and other debris was allowed to fall into the north fork of the Wailua River.
 Metal cables and rebar were also left exposed, creating a safety hazard.
“The entire diversion is compromised,” a utility official told me. “It could cost tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to repair, and the tab will be picked up by KIUC's members.”

A company that regularly monitors KIUC's hydro infrastructure reported the damage on Oct. 18, and believe it happened in the two weeks prior.

On Sept. 27, Adam Asquith, a taro farmer and Seagrant employee working with Waipa Foundation, sent state aquatic biologist Don Heacock an inflammatory email. It greatly mischaracterized the county Department of Water's plan to construct an 18-inch water main from Kapaia Reservoir to Grove Farm's surface water treatment plant (SWTP):
Heacock then sent the email on to others. Former mayoral candidate Dustin Barca posted the materials on Facebook, calling it a “a threat TO ALL OUR LIVES!!! This is WAR on our people! Everybody get ready to KU'E!!!!"

Dustin's post solicited a slew of comments, including threats and calls to action:
KKCR also got into the act, with Felicia Cowden hosting Asquith and Debbie Jackson, another misinformed water activist, on her show. At the 71-minute mark, Felicia takes a call from a man who says:

There's gonna be hundreds of people going to destroy all their water diversions and restore the natural flow. There are people on this island that are not going to let this diversion because of people and big business and everything and all the county council and all of that. They're not going to wait for that. If the river doesn't start flowing soon, people are gonna destroy the diversions. Local people who have culture that want to do their natural Hawaiian you know...

At this point, instead of denouncing the action, counseling against criminal property damage or cutting the guy off, Felicia interjects, “to correct the stream flow.” To which the guy replies, “Yeah, yeah." Felicia then ends the call with, “Thank you for that important piece. I appreciate that.”

As a bit of background, the water diverted from the North Fork flows into a ditch that supplies the two hydro plants. It's then returned to the South Fork of the Wailua River, some of which goes into the Kapaia Reservoir. The reservoir provides water to taro, flower, vegetable and fruit farmers, and cattle ranchers, as well as the SWTP.

Lihue Plantation created the diversion in 1926 to irrigate its sugar fields, and built the two hydro plants to generate electricity to run its mill. When it went out of business, the electric utility acquired the two hydro plants and maintenance of the ditches above them.

Though KIUC has a state permit that authorizes the diversion, it has been controversial because it can take 100 percent of the North Fork flow at times.

But observers said the vandalism was misguided for a number of reasons, besides its illegality. 

First, the diversion is allowed under a month-to-month revocable permit. Due to a recent court ruling, the state is now requiring all those permit holders to apply for a water lease, which includes conducting environmental and cultural studies.

Second, a Kauai resident who met with staff members from the state Commission on Water Resource Management (CWRM) last week said the agency was already planning to direct KIUC to alter the diversion so it didn't take 100 percent of the stream flow. Due to court rulings and CWRM decisions, the agency was moving to limit diversions to no more than 50 percent of the median low flow.

Third, the state Department of Land and Natural Resources is currently in the process of setting instream flow standards for East Kauai streams. That's the first step in determining how much water can be diverted without causing environmental harm.

In short, the diversion issue was being sorted out through the state permitting process, which provides extensive public involvement.

Don and Adam were aware of this. So why did they feel the need to fan the flames to create the kind of hysteria that led misguided “aloha aina warriors” to take matters into their own hands? 

And when will the KKCR board start paying attention to the rhetoric of its programmers?

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

Felicia Cowden you should be ashamed of yourself. Hopefully you and your show are investigated by the FBI for domestic terrorism. You should know how some of these fucking idiots like barca think and you're on your show practically condoning this type of behavior. You need to take a serious look in the mirror and stop being a dumb uninformed bitch. You fucking idiots are actually hurting small farmers which you constantly claim is the key to a sustainable Kauai.

Anonymous said...

You clearly don't understand the value of natural water flow. This place is sacred to the native Hawaiians. Just because the diversion was made in the '20s doesn't make it right. Attacking Felicia and Dustin by calling them names just makes you look unintelligent and silly. These people are fighting for a cause. Maybe you should go back to where your ancestors are from, since you clearly don't understand the power of the land, and how sacred and special it is to the native Hawaiians. The big businesses like grove farm and kiuc misinform the public by telling us that they are helping small farmers. It's all a PR stunt to make them look better. They could care less about small farms, the only thing keeping the corporate cog moving is money and greed for more. The land, the people, our beautiful island, means nothing to them. It's all fueled by money.

Anonymous said...

@10:28
As Joan notes, the process is being sorted out through the DLNR. Taking matters into one's hands through sabotage is illegal--and threatening to do it on the public airwaves is just stupid. The "a`ina warriors" need to learn how to engage in the political process in a constructive, productive manner, rather than through hollow gestures invoking the "sacredness" of a place and misappropriating cultural identity to promote a misguided identity politics. But then I guess few of them have actually read land use codes, regulations and treaties and understand that process. That's why so many of their actions on Kauai have failed: they don't understand legal, electoral or government processes. Low- to no-information voters, they get their information from Facebook memes and little else. Sounds like you do, too. They are much like Trump supporters in this regard, bellowing about rigged processes and telling people to go back to where they came from.

Anonymous said...

As a native Hawaiian I can say that neither Felicia, Dustin or any one else speaks for me or our nation and I take offense at their presumption that they or any other non Hawaiian could.

Anonymous said...

Co-conspirators, who fan the flames of terrorism and then claim innocence, have relegated some hapless fool or fools to federal prosecution and jail--just so they could short-circuit a system that was already working.
Meanwhile, who pays the cost? Our electricity rate payers and the many downstream users of water.

Anonymous said...

PR stunt? Tell that to the farmers who depend on that water. Adam himself is on a diversion

Anonymous said...

How the heck is KPD calling the Feds to investigate domestic terrorism when KPD does the same damn thing?

Anonymous said...

They played right into the hands of the Feds who have been waiting for something like this to happen. Whoever did this has set the movement back ten years and will pay dearly for it.

Anonymous said...

@10:39 The big businesses like grove farm and kiuc misinform the public.

First KIUC is a member owned cooperative not a big business.

Second neither Adam, Don or Felica called for the destruction of property nor violence. There was no call to action. Joan is trying to pin the tail on the wrong honkies. Only the people that destroyed the property are responsible. If everyone could only speak so no one misinterpreted what was said no one would be abole to say much. Joan herself could be accused of talking stink about Adam, Don, and Felica causing some irresponsible idiot like those that destroyed the diversion to blame these speakers for the vandalism and "take matters into their own hands" and cause violence. Free speech is protected. Violence and destruction of property is not.

Anonymous said...

I look forward to the FBI investigating this. Since Kauai activists like breaking rocks they can do it in the penitentiary.

Anonymous said...

Joan, Exactly what "rhetoric" should KKCR board pay attention to?

Anonymous said...

Who has title to the land where the diversion is? And how was it obtained? Was it obtained legally?

Manuahi said...

12:35 - Please give me ONE example of an illegally obtained property. Just one! and don't give me that sovereignty bullshit because the Kamehamha's sold thousands and thousands of acres of land LEGALLY to finance their lifestyles, brass buttons and greed! A TMK would be helpful if you have that simple ability. I'll bet you don't. Just another Google expert and probably a malahini to boot.

Anonymous said...

Manuahi- who has title to the land and how was it obtained? Is it clear title? Perhaps a deed? Are you claiming that all land titles in Hawaiʻi are clear titles?

Anonymous said...

Manuahi- Who owns ceded lands in Hawaiʻi? Were they obtained legally. How about Hawaiʻi itself? Was it obtained legally?

Anonymous said...

The plan to avoid the Federal Government from being involved with Kauai issues especially with KIUC has been compromised now that the FBI has been called upon. We going pay big bucks for this now.

Anonymous said...

looks to me like they used a gas powered concrete saw and a sledge hammer. hope these people are caught and made to pay for the rebuild and go jail. best they turn themselves in now , maybe that would take some time off the sentance. anybody know the penalties for domestic terrorism ?

John Kauai said...

Are we sure it wasn't "radicalized muslim terrorists"? (that's a joke, although admittedly directed at Trump supporters who apparently have the same sense of humor at that demonstrated by Trump at the Al Smith dinner last week.)

On a serious note, water usage has been a problem for nearly 200 years. The movie "China Town" was all about water. Many of the '50's cowboy movies were about water. I've seen "Owens Lake" on the East side of the mountains.

I'm sure Bradley can tell us stories about how some farmers in Nebraska will sabotage (although that might be "too strong" a word to use) the irrigation system there because they need another inch of water for their field which results in farmers downstream being deprived. It kind of pisses off the neighbors. I sure recall my uncles being pretty upset.

I would like to understand why the folks who did the sabotage thought they were somehow being shortchanged and what they think an equitable distribution of water might be. Whatever the case, this action hardly helps their cause. It is especially ironic that Joan just published a blog about the problems the small farmers who depend on the East Kauai Irrigation System are having. There was a TGI story about that pipeline this week. I can't find it though. (Can't remember the keywords that might bring it up.)

The 10:28 claim that native Hawaiians "understand the value of natural water flow" doesn't quite make sense to me since they clearly created fish ponds and flooded their taro fields. As far as water being "sacred", I guess I can agree with that -- especially when it flows reliably from the tap on my kitchen sink. ;-)

I think a similar argument could be made for the "natural flow of electricity", but then how would I post this message? ;-)

I guess it is time to send another contribution to Planned Parenthood . It is quite obvious that, for the chosen lifestyle we live, there are too many people on Kauai. Now, before you all tell me to go back to where I came from, let me assure you that there are way too many people there too. And some of them, believe it or not, are from Kauai. So, if I leave, does that mean they have to come back?

Anonymous said...

Felicia failed to stand up to her caller and advise him that what he threatened was illegal. She didnt urge him to take legal action if he disagreed or engage in the political process. She's like all those Republicans who won't stand up to Trump's heated rhetoric and incitement to commit violence.

Manuahi said...

Sure if the King sold it, it was legal. I see you couldn't come up with even ONE property that was actually stolen. I figure you wee all empty words and no facts to back up your claim of "Who has title to the land where the diversion is? And how was it obtained? Was it obtained legally?" Yawn....zzzz.

Anonymous said...

Grove Farm was started in 1858--long before the North Shore malihini moved here and became instant experts in Hawaiian culture and began to tell us all how to live. Princess Ruth Keʻelikolani sold a parcel of land to Wilcox in the late 1890s that expanded it tenfold. So much for the sacredness of the aina when the royalty needed some pin money to finance a European vacation.

Most long-term Kauai residents will have a connection to Grove Farm at some point in their family history because it has always been among the largest employers on the island. So trashing it is a foolish tactic--it is one of the island's longstanding institutions and the people who vote for Arthur Brun, Arryl Kaneshiro, Derek Kawakami and others must surely believe Felicia, Dustin et al are all terribly ignorant and foolish. They are just too polite and have too much aloha to say so. But they pay attention and vote, hence Felicia and Dustin's farcical foray into electoral politics. Hoping Da Hoose gets hosed, too.

@10:28: Never heard of fish ponds or any of the other intensive natural resource management techniques Hawaiians used to cultivate the loi, including dikes? Seems your knowledge about the Hawaiians doesn't go too far. Anyone who messed with the water systems (and they weren't "free flowing streams") was drowned. Try read.

Manuahi said...

You still can't accept that the Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown in revolution by citizens of the Kingdom plus some non-citizens. It's happened time and time again in the world. Sorry, but that's the truth.

PS - Yup, all lands in Hawaii have clear title except for those old kuleana where a landowner died intestate and never properly conveyed his/her land to his/her heirs. But that stuff has been getting cleaned up by the heirs and assigns. Ceded lands are government lands some of which are held in trust for Native Hawaiians. If you had any legal case at all to disagree, you'd be in the courts in a flash trying to get some land for yourself. Sorry that the Kamehamehas sold you down the river. A tough pill to swallow.

Anonymous said...

KIUC is a big business hiding under Co-op by name only:

Simple Definition of co–op
: a business or organization that is owned and operated by the people who work there or the people who use its services

Simple Definition of business
: the activity of making, buying, or selling goods or providing services in exchange for money
: work that is part of a job
: the amount of activity that is done by a store, company, factory, etc.

-Merriam-Webster

Anonymous said...

Felicia is completely irresponsible. The un-informed crap that comes out of her pie hole eon KKCR is so embarrassing. I think of the tourists listening sometimes - they must be thinking we turned community radio over to the mental patients. Her and Judy the cat lady - another one who just like destroy anything that interfere with her agenda. Pepper that with schizo Barca and we got the tri-fecta of "leaders" in Kauai activism. When Joan C and Caren D had that voice, we (collectively) stopped the proliferation of TVRs and the Superferry and banned plastic bags that were littering the highway. Now we get people who want to destroy the Humane society, break up waters supplies for farmers as if we are war, and face-booking invitations to violence all the time - while dismissing as ever the very people our democracy elected to represent us. I say send them all to Trump's party and they can all take comfort in each other's misery over democracy rigging things against them. End rant.

John Kauai said...

1:36/1:38 Thanks for the interesting trip through the 'inter web'.

I'll grant that Wikipedia is written by a bunch of guys who may not have a clue, but when there isn't a better resource (or any other resource) it is the best I can do.

The Ceded Lands were suppose to be owned by the "Crown". When the "Crown" abrogated (or was overthrown, which ever choice you wish) there was "no one" to own those lands so title transferred to the Hawaii Republic.

Anyway, that page leads to the Great Mahele which discusses how Kamehameha III and his "minions" (today we would call them the 1%) divided up Hawaii. The Kuleana Act of 1850 happened well before the "overthrow" and that (In My Humble Opinion) is where most Hawaiians were screwed, but I won't go into arguing that point since no one cares to hear about it.

In turn though that lead me to Hawaiian Homelands . I've always wondered what it meant when someone said a piece of property was in the "Homesteads". I've even asked on this blog and received no reply.

Leaving out a whole lot of details that aren't important to my question, how in the world are most of the properties in the "Homesteads" owned by "other than native Hawaiians"? That land was suppose to be transferred to native Hawaiians. Did your ancestors "homestead" the property and then sell it to a haole? Is the idea that because your King gave the land to a bunch of missionaries (I'd call them crooks, but then I might offend some Jesus fan) that the people who now reside there (in the "homesteads) are suppose to give up their property without compensation?

The "homesteads" are less than 5% of the land of Hawaii. This claim still doesn't touch the big land owners. Dylan's song "Only a Pawn in their Game" comes to mind. I'm not sure who is playing which role though.

Anonymous said...

@3:43, Read the ACT OF CONGRESS Public Law 103-105. It specifically rejects your incorrect view that there was a revolution of Hawaii citizens. The United States has formally apologized for the overthrow being illegal. All of the ceded lands were stolen. Keep trying to re-write history though.

John Kauai said...

3:56, you truly have no concept of what a "big business" is.

I have attended most of the KIUC public meetings since moving here. I truly appreciate the efforts they are making to turn Kauai into 100% renewable energy. Few, if any, of the for-profit utilities on the mainland are making that effort.

I know members on the KIUC board. I didn't have to go out of my way to know them. I just had to show up at their meetings. Some of them know me by my face, some, even by name.

There are a lot of things that are "fucked up" about big business, but KIUC is not "big business".

I will stand up for KIUC over and over and over again. Kauai is lucky to have that co-op. And I honor the people that serve on that board.

I have tried to refrain from saying anything negative about people who post here since it rarely serves a purpose and I sometimes think that "maybe, just maybe" they might have a point. But you, sir, have no point. You're just pissed off for no reason other than it makes you feel good to think that you are combating "the man" (who is anyone other than your self-centered "you") who you think is somehow putting you down.

It occurs to me that perhaps you are one of those anti-smart-meter individuals. I cannot express how much I condemn your total stupidity. You type that crap with a laptop on your balls that radiates orders of magnitude more radiation than the smart meter does. And after you read this, you're going to call your friends using your cell phone that emits radiation that is frying your brain. You'll feel so self-satisfied that you'll decide to celebrate by eating popcorn prepared in your microwave oven. And then you'll sit on your lawn chair, in the sun, as you congratulate yourself for having performed some minor service that has "put us all in our place".

There may be some problems at KIUC, but I have every confidence that those problems are being dealt with.

John Kauai said...

4:45

Let us assume that the "ceded lands" were stolen.

Who were they stolen from?

The "ceded lands" used to be "crown lands". They were never owned by the Hawaiian People. Should they be returned to the descendants of Kamehameha? (Speaking of which, are there any? Or are they "hiding" like George Clooney was in "The Descendants"?

If you want remedy for the stolen lands, get it from the people who stole it.

Anonymous said...

In the 1920s, the State gave cheap land to those who wanted it..in areas where Sugar wasn't easy to grow. On Kauai, Kilauea Sugar, Makee Sugar,LP, McBryde, GF, and GR had it all.
The Portuguese for the most part took it, for cows...many of the Japanese in the 1920's were still thinking about maybe going back to the land of the Rising Sun. The Portuguese were already cowboys, the Japanese were good gardeners etc. But not many grabbed the acreage.
These tracts were of various sizes but many were 20 and 30 acres.
The Big 5 kept all of the good stuff and today we are all fighting over the measly 3 percent that was left as urban....to put up one house. Most every crook and cranny of the smaller Ag lands has been built on. What a joke. Thousands of flat acres, more water than Noah ever saw and our County/State will not make it easier to own a home. So now we have JoAnn, Da Hoos and Mason trying to cram us into Apartments...under the guise that some house is better than no house.
Strange that Da Hoos, JoAnn and Mason aren't joining the 18 inch pipeline fight.This is raw meat for these 3 anti-local, pro-tax and self-absorbed individuals.
But it is election time. Da Hoos is strangely silent on topics that usually get him agitated and very swollen. Same with JoAnn.......Mason would follow. He is probably wondering why his 2 mentors aren't taking action.
Never forget, the election is around the corner and just because Da Hoos no talkee now, doesn't mean that if he is elected he won't be front and center against anything that improves the regular folk's lives.




Anonymous said...


It occurs to me that perhaps you are one of those anti-smart-meter individuals. I cannot express how much I condemn your total stupidity. You type that crap with a laptop on your balls that radiates orders of magnitude more radiation than the smart meter does. And after you read this, you're going to call your friends using your cell phone that emits radiation that is frying your brain. You'll feel so self-satisfied that you'll decide to celebrate by eating popcorn prepared in your microwave oven. And then you'll sit on your lawn chair, in the sun, as you congratulate yourself for having performed some minor service that has "put us all in our place".

There may be some problems at KIUC, but I have every confidence that those problems are being dealt with.

You assume so much and you think you know it all. You moved to kauai from the mainland filth and cater to the plantation boys and gals but you have no idea how much harm and how of much their greed has caused people to suffer. You're not an average Pete but you try to mimic him and by doing so you feel like you belong. But youre just another Southpark character lost on an island full of fantasies.

Felicia Alongi Cowden said...

And Joan fails to say that I had alerted Kirk Saiki of the Department of Water to listen in, call in or come it. We spoke the ahead of time and I let him know that the issue was coming on the show. He was listening and eventually called in, but called late. I was holding out for him to help with the facts. The link to the show is here: http://www.kkcr.org/archive/ksb100416.mp3 and the topic comes on in the second hour. When the caller came on with a threat to the water supply, I though he was kirk, he had about two minutes on the show and I moved past it. Intentionally, Joan, you like to trash me. You do a disservice to your readers by being a spin doctor that gives them the wrong information. Letʻs see if you bother to post this.

Joan Conrow said...

Felicia, it's totally irrelevant whether you invited Kirk to call in, though I would suggest it''s always good to try and gather some facts before you go on the air and let people make any kine.

My point was you failed to admonish or stop the caller who was issuing the threat. Yet you totally skip right over that and try to make me at fault for reporting verbatim how you handled that caller. I didn't provide any wrong information. That's your MO, not mine.

Furthermore, there was no need for you to post the link to your show, because there is already a hyperlink to it in the post, as well as the time when the caller is on. Maybe you should have read the post before you commented and adopted your usual role of victim. Better yet, get a clue before you start trying to discuss issues about which you know nothing.

Anonymous said...

@7:44
"But youre just another Southpark character lost on an island full of fantasies."

Haha good one I'll drink a chichi to that

Felicia Alongi Cowden said...

My experience as host on our community talk show is not to feed a dissenting voice with a destructive message in any way. As a moderator, if I admonish or scold the caller, it will generate a rash of calls to back that person up and shift the whole discussion toward amplifying the wrathful mindset. The primary reason I broke the flow of the conversation for the call was I was hoping it was Kirk Saiki from the Department of Water to join the conversation. I was very brief to re-open the line for DOWʻs response. I simply thanked the caller, because my presumption was that the Department of Water was listening and there is value in their grasping the depth of the frustration that has been festering for a very long time.

My goal is to create constructive communication on problematic issues, not to encourage divisive negative rants at individuals in the fashion Kauai Eclectic does. The shows are live, so there are varying degrees of success at achieving that goal; but it is the goal. In the roughly seven years I have been on Kauai Soap Box, the voice of the disenfranchised is a reoccurring theme. People feel displaced and disempowered through public hearing windows in which their voices are most often ignored. The initial public outreaches for informational meetings and commentary are often poorly publicized and are perceived as little more than a gesture at the law. The public testimony window commonly happens after all the supporting plans, contracts and implementation steps are in place. It can understandably make people angry. That said, no matter how much we can emphasize the importance of participating in the Kauai General Plan Update as an example, citizen input still is weak from the struggling populations.

This is the first time, to my knowledge that an illegal threat has been followed through that has happened in close succession to a show on the topic. I donʻt know who the caller was, but that person may or may not have been affiliated with who caused the damage. Profound anger over that diversion has been persistent for at least ten years of my awareness. The diversion impacts are most strongly felt by the generational community, not the newcomer as is being inferred in this discussion.

Joan, the serious effort taken to provide balance by having primary source participation (the DOW) is not irrelevant in your blog post holding my radio show partly responsible for what happened. My providing accuracy to this conversation is not "playing the victim." Your goal is to create targeted anger to shoot your favorite messengers on a consistent basis. Responsible journalism reaches for accuracy from the people being accused.

To be clear, it brings me no joy to learn that a harsh impact occurred. Independent of the irresponsible reporting on Kauai Ecclectic, this event has certainly raised my sense of caution in structuring a show. This coming Tuesdayʻs show has planned to have a call in from the Division of Forestry and Wildlife concerning the distress over the installation of a bridge in this same general area of upper Wailua. It helps me to know that I really need to have an in-studio conversation, so we are not waiting for that call-in support. I will try to find a constructive voice from those affected downstream on this diversion incident and couple it with other projects like the bridge to have a dialogue on how to work effectively with the system rather than resorting to destructive actions.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for answering Felicia. She thinks she is balanced and is a know it all, but clearly is clueless on so much. But that doesn't stop her from flapping her mouth big time.KKCR should get new show hosts that are more balanced in their thoughts and agenda.

Joan Conrow said...

Really, Felicia? After 7 years you're only now realizing you should have some sense of WTF you're talking about before you go on the air with your guests, who are so often as misinformed as you?

As for not wanting to cut off or admonish a caller advocating criminal property damage because other callers might back that person up, you could have used any subsequent calls to further reinforce the message that vandalism is wrong. You've never hesitated to interject your opinion before.

If your goal is to create constructive communication on problematic issues, you've failed abysmally, largely because you don't have sufficient understanding of the topics you broach and totally lack any understanding of your own deep limitations, as evidenced by your laughable attempt to lecture me on "responsible journalism."

Time to get your ego out of the way, Felicia, and let someone else's voice be heard on our community radio station.

Anonymous said...

@8:47 PM "Better yet, get a clue before you start trying to discuss issues about which you know nothing."

At least Felicia is not duplicitous. Joan on the other hand is regurgitating snippets from past posts and I don't just mean telling Felica to "get a clue" which was the title of her last blog post either! I mean taking old post and re-posting snippets of these old post as an anon just to lure other anon suckers into responding. Joan does this all the time but I'll cite one example from Joan's most recent post before this post called "Another Day in Paradise."

Anonymous said...
I’d feel a little more comfortable about the technology if it wasn’t being developed by the same folks who brought us Agent Orange and dioxin. It’s kind of hard to believe these guys when they say, “trust us, GMOs are completely safe.”
October 21, 2016 at 10:04 AM

This is a direct quote from a previous post from Joan in her blog. Need proof? Look right here http://kauaieclectic.blogspot.com/2009/04/musing-that-elusive-truth.html

For sure she won't print this but that's ok because a major exposé on Joan and her unseemly relationship with the Cornell Alliance for Science is forthcoming.

Anonymous said...

@7:10 "This is the first time, to my knowledge that an illegal threat has been followed through that has happened in close succession to a show on the topic"

I remember another talk show host threatened to beat up Andy Parx.

Joan Conrow said...

Gosh, 7:53, you're really grasping at straws. Sounds more like you're doing a set up, since you seem far more familiar with my previous posts than I and obviously have a lot more time on your hands.

I'm not too worried about your "expose"
for two reasons: your comment is a total lie and fabrication, and there is nothing unseemly about my relationship to expose.

But thanks for reminding us again of the type of dirty tactics that characterize the antis.

Anonymous said...

@8:12 "I remember another talk show host threatened to beat up Andy Parx."

And that guy was taken off the air.

Anonymous said...

Felicia is a smart woman. Her dedication and consistency to KKCR is commendable.
She is a bit of a unicorn gazer and hypocrite, but Felicia is smart.
It is difficult to be on point as calls come in. Many talk-shows have canned answers to anything that is brought up by a caller that borders on illegal etc activity.
We are a little immune to threats actually being fulfilled.
The bottom line on the KIUC vandalism is the approach that this is "domestic terror".
Kauai will see a whole new level of law enforcement if the FBI really moves in on this.
This could be a change for our island.
Domestic terrorism or vandalism? That is the question.
It is a difference of 6 months at KCCC or 20 years at Leavenworth.
Of course if Justin Kollar prosecutes this, it will be "dealed down" to just some kids having fun. Serious stuff and a limp wrist Prosecutor like Justin should never handle big boy crimes. He is perfect for barking dogs and speeding tickets, but if there are real crimes by real bad people, Justin will shiver like a leaf and give the bad guys a pass. Justin don't do real crime real good. He is a real nice man. He could be a public defender, but a hard prosecutor?
C'mon Justin, when have you ever prosecuted to the "full extent of the law"?

Funny thing tho' both Felicia and Joan are some what cut from the same Socialistic cloth on most issues, it would be nice if these 2 smart chicks could get together and coordinate their talents and focus on some shared values. Homelessness, Honest Government, Roads or Housing. Joan is taken very seriously by the boys in the Ivory Tower, Felicia is taken as a bit of a flake...but if Felicia were guided a bit by Joan on the whats and wherefors of influence, as a team with their combined market share via print and radio...some change could be acomin'.

Manuahi said...

Good show, Joan! It's amazing the lengths these Anti losers will go to try to undermine your good work and the truth you reveal. Quite a joke.

Anonymous said...

Though the diversion has been in place for quite some time - reportedly since the 20s - in recent years it has been increasingly diverted, in that the "gates" along the irrigation ditch used to allow some water to travel out along the natural direction, and now don't allow any. So there have been changes recently, though many people don't seem to realize that (and I'm doubting - am I wrong? that you Joan have traversed the irrigation ditches yourself over the years to witness the increasing diversions).

Instead of ignoring the native population's water concerns (and like one person above saying people responsible should be thrown in the "penitentiary" - because yes that's what this country should do, throw more minorities in prison so we can continue our insane institution of having far, far more people in prison than any other country in the world), how about if the government actually listens, compromises and indulges some of their wishes? It's aggravating that people expect the Hawaiians to always act with politeness.

Acts of sabotage? Those words much better describe the illegal overthrow of a sovereign nation long ago. Inflammatory? That word better describes a government that continues to make it harder and harder for Hawaiians to enjoy places that have deep meaning for them - like Kalalau (wanna go there? sure, just pay a couple hundred bucks to spend the weekend there legally) and Ke'e (sorry, you're gonna have to catch a shuttle there with the tourists and carry all your fishing gear with you) and Koke'e (what does the future hold up there?).

You know what bothers me most about you, Joan? You aren't humble. You write as if you're the informed authority on everything, and the truth is, there's some right and some wrong in every part of every issue. Pesticide corporations aren't evil incarnate, and some GMO crops do some good in the world. But pesticides are still pesticides and are inherently damaging, by definition, and yes they should be strictly regulated!

The world doesn't need more people who want to turn everything into a chicken fight.

anonymous said...

@10:41 Great comment. Kānaka maoli and culture are so disrespected and ignored by the powers that be. And I agree, chicken fights are cruel and hopefully humans are evolving so that such behavior will become obsolete. Hope to read more of your comments in the future.

Anonymous said...

Keep up the good work Felicia- bringing up issues important to our community on your show, many of which are ignored or downplayed by other media. Especially appreciate your non-confrontational and peaceful approach to issues and people who call in on your show.

Anonymous said...

Your real initials are T.E.

Anonymous said...

"Domestic terrorism or vandalism? That is the question."

When it's children defacing a sign or breaking sinks in a restroom it's vandalism. When it's an ideological mission to destroy infrastructure and ignoring society's established vehicles for discussion and compromise, it's sabotage which IMHO is domestic terrorism and should be punished as such.

Anonymous said...

Hey Tom (not John Kauai) I knew you read this blog but your comments are showing that you're truly going senile for a 70+ yr old.

Anonymous said...

@12:20 "defacing a sign or breaking sinks in a restroom it's vandalism" Duh sinks and signs are infrastructure and vandalism is not an age based offense, nor is terrorism and both are sabotage.

Anonymous said...

This act is so typical of the deluded fools who think they are doing something other than a crime. The water is diverted. It does not disappear. Secondly there is no long ag at the diversion...sugar was a bit downward. I do remember as a child a bit of banana and some timber bamboo there, but that was about it. This area was not taro loi, it was forest formerly and much is reverting back to forest. The water re-enters before where the taro loi is. I don't see anyone trying to plant sweet potato, yam, cassava, kukui or plantain which is what the kula fields had at the re-entry point. Just the myth like loi much further downstream that were abandoned by Hawaiians in the 1880-1920s when other occupations called. And never owned by the vandals.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 10:41 AM
If you don't like what Joan has to say or how she says it, why in the heck are you reading her blog?

Anonymous said...

10:41: "But pesticides are still pesticides and are inherently damaging, by definition, and yes they should be strictly regulated!"

No one, not even the pesticide companies, is saying pesticides shouldn't be regulated.

Anonymous said...

4:12 You forgot a key word- "strictly".

Anonymous said...

Yes, 4:12 PM - What the Anti's want is a complete ban on pesticides. Obviously, they're not framers. They like to think of themselves as intellectuals. LOL!!! Dustin Barca!!! LOL!!!!

Anonymous said...

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" @10:41

Anonymous said...

I'm a farmer and I don't use pesticides @4:37

Anonymous said...

4:24 Pesticides ARE strictly regulated.

Anonymous said...

@ 6:23 PM, Please tell us more...what do you farm, how many acres, where, and how do you manage without pesticides?

Really interested.

Anonymous said...

6:23 - How big is your farm? What do you grow? Is farming your full-time profession?

Anonymous said...

Yes. So strictly regulated that 30 SYNGENTA field workers were exposed to chlorpyrifos and 12 went to the hospital. Theoretically it is strictly regulated but there is no oversight and no accountability. Self regulation is no regulation. The EPA and DOA are MIA, WTFing good is regulation?

Anonymous said...

If pesticides are so strictly regulated, why are they showing up in our bodies and the bodies of our children?

Anonymous said...

10/23 @ 10:12 PM, you do know that the exposure was from the workers re-entering the field prior to the expiration of the Restricted Entry Interval (REI), which was properly reported to the DOA and the EPA, and thoroughly investigated, and the medical evaluation found no harm to the workers? "No oversight and no accountability" is rather sweeping B.S., considering that EPA is cracking down on Syngenta, which was earlier reported in this blog as well as in major news outlets. Oh wait, you have an agenda and conveniently overlook facts that don't fit your agenda. My bad.

10/23 @ 10:33 PM, are you talking about the pesticides naturally present in plants as well as the pesticides used in organic production? Are you aware that with modern analytical techniques we can detect substances at parts per trillion levels, which is why pesticides are detected at levels several orders of magnitude below levels that could cause harm? Careful now, don't incorporate information that wull cause you to update your world view!!

Anonymous said...

Glyphosate found in human blood, mothers milk and urine. American levels much higher than Europe. Not enough research which requires time. No understanding on how small amounts of different ecocides react with each other in human body. "Safety levels" change over time due to new research. Government safety levels influenced by chemical company bias and influence in government. PCBʻs were also determined to be safe, but were later banned. As a parent, I do not accept at this time that glyphosate is safe in my childʻs body. Industry at one time said glyphosate is excreted and does not remain in human body. This has been proven to be untrue.

Anonymous said...

10/24 @ 9:28, appreciate that you are concerned, but I question how much scientific knowledge or education you have, also your ability to apply the same standards to all types of toxins. You can express your opinion, but it does not carry any compelling weight to it. Statements like "not enough research which requires time" "no understanding", activist statements and introduction of unrelated topics adds nothing to your position. If you are so concerned about glyphosate, why? And can you apply the same level of concern to toxins used in organic agriculture, as well as those used in household cleaning products, transportation, and the electronics industry?

If you aren't willing to properly educate yourself, but expect others to change, then I suppose I can insist upon the right to effect change in areas in which I am not properly educated. I think I'll become a brain surgeon or a lawyer, starting today. Or maybe I'll go around saying organic farmers are fixated pedophiles, without providing evidence to back my claim. Fair enough?

John Kauai said...

Well, there is this thing called CKDu that has been correlated with the use of glyphosate. It was originally published in Sri Lanka, but sugar cane workers in Central America are exhibiting the same symptoms.

In summary, it appears that glyphosate, which is a chelator causes metals to get stuck in the kidney leading to renal failure.

The evidence is subjective, but cane workers did not have this problem before the use of glyphosate as a crop desiccant did not have the problem.

This is the kind of thing that Don Huber and Bob Streit warned about when they were showing examples of how glyphosate was affecting crop yields. (Before anyone decides to call these guys quacks, they are NOT Dr. Oz or Vandana Shiva types. They have discovered a problem; they have proposed a hypothesis to explain the problem; they are letting people know so they can determine whether or not they have been affected in the same way so appropriate steps can be taken.)

I am not calling for a ban on glyphosate, because it obviously has some use. I am urging people to consider the consequences of its use. (Much like the government warns against smoking.)

I suppose I should say that there's no evidence that eating sugar treated in this way causes problems in the consumer. On the other hand, one might consider looking into the rise of celiac disease that correlates to the use of glyphosate prior to the harvest of wheat.

Anonymous said...

@11:17, Perhaps with all your "expertise", you can be paid to visit public schools and universities and educate our children about the existence and safety of the poisons which are showing up in their bodies. Explain to them why they need not worry, a little poison never hurt anyone, right? And then maybe you can write an article for pregnant mothers- no need to worry about poisons showing up in their embryos and after the babies are born in their motherʻs milk. Completely "safe", of course, no need to be concerned. And absolutely no, in the future , scientific research will never show that what was previously "claimed" to be safe is now found to be harmful. Never happens, right? Questioning safety of poisons is only a misguided action by "activists", right? Thank god for educated scientific individuals like yourself, who can set straight and educate all us ignorant mothers who have ignorant children who are students.

Anonymous said...

1:04. Yes, you are ignorant. Most of the chemicals showing up in human bodies are not pesticides. They are things like flame retardants and other substances from materials used in the home. Try take some responsibility for your own lifestyle choices instead of blaming others all the time.

Anonymous said...

Every place is scared to native Hawaiians. Oh I should go back to where my ancestors are from? How many generations should I go back to find my ancestral home? What about the Hawaiians? Maybe they should go back to where their ancestors are from, you know, China. After all the Hawaiians arrival to Hawaii caused many extinctions. There's evidence they may have committed genocide as well to people already here. Not to mention all the ecological destruction they caused building terraces everywhere and diverting the natural flow of water so they could practice agriculture. You have no idea how good the Hawaiians were at moving water and the massive diversions they created. If the ancient Hawaiians had been able to figure out something like cement we would still see evidence of the amazing irrigation systems they were able to build.

Anonymous said...

You are ignorant @1:17. The Chem Companies are making those chemicals too.

Anonymous said...

1:17- In regards to your response to 1:04, I cannot for the life of me find any part of that comment which can be regarded as "blaming others all the time". Could you please point out the specific sentence where this "blame" can be found? It seems as if their use of the term "ignorant" was tongue-in-cheek, calling them ignorant without actually knowing them, their educational level, the research they have done, etc.- are you being scientific and making logical conclusions about the person here? Or are you making assumptions about the person without actually knowing more about them?

Anonymous said...

@1:17 PM, I never said most of the chemicals are pesticides. I never blamed anyone. I do the best I can to keep harmful chemicals and poisons away from my family and children. The fact that more and more of these poisons are showing up in our bodies worries me. That is what I call being responsible- being aware of the fact, and then doing my best to avoid exposure as much as possible. I value and support clean soil, water and air free from poisons. (from 1:04)

Anonymous said...

It is great we are doing a great job on staying on the topic subject of "Water diversion vandalism."

If Ms. Joan wanted to make a comment on the last string of conversations she would refer you all to her September 26, 2016 topic on "Agreeing on Facts" as she reported.

Putting words into John California's mouth, it's his decision to use or not use pesticides knowing what he researched in his studies. As smart (sarcasm!) as he portrays himself to be, it is the choice of the individual to be exposed or not exposed.

So it is yours to accept or not accept pesticides in your life. you don't like pesticides, go to somewhere that there is none. specifically in your bubble. that's your choice.

FWIW John Califonia, go test yourself. you've got cancer from your chemical use.

same discussion different day. Come on!!!

same person trying to push her weight around. Seriously. better yet, go back to the September 26th posting and continue your discussion there. Freaking Beavis and Butt-Head! (one tracked mind!)

Anonymous said...

Joan,

I've heard (through the grapevine) that Barca had posted this weekend (has since been removed) a photo of himself up near the broken diversion with a comment to the effect of 'looks like a natural blowout'.

Again, I repeat that this is purely 2nd hand information, however, am curious if you know of anyone who had managed to take a screenshot before he removed it?

Anonymous said...

Interesting how some people want to change the subject and don't want to discuss the crime that was commited at Blue Hole. This is not a simple case of vandalism. Regardless of what you believe,taking the law into your own hands is never a good idea.

Anonymous said...

Interesting how some people want to change the subject and don't want to discuss the crime that was committed at Blue Hole. This is not a simple case of vandalism. Regardless of what you believe,taking the law into your own hands is never a good idea.

Anonymous said...

John Kauai, you need to read up more on Bob Streit and Don Huber, including who has been funding them to go around and talk. Huber has flushed his credibility down the toilet - find out why.

@1:04, way to deflect. Can you answer the questions that were posed to you?

John Kauai said...

4:22
You need to think about providing the evidence to back up your slander.
As it is right now, you have no identification, you have no references, you are generally not worth responding to, but just in case you can back up your claim, I'll give you the opportunity to prove it to the community.

Anonymous said...

"Sabotage is a deliberate action aimed at weakening a polity or corporation through subversion, obstruction, disruption or destruction." Vandalism is destruction for its own sake and is a word used by defense lawyers wanting to deflect the more serious consequences of sabotage. If sabotage does not fit the premeditated act at the diversion, I'd like to have the definition of what does. Some lawbreakers had to haul a concrete saw and other equipment up to the site and set about destroying public property, a hydroelectric generating power source (utility)- someone who wanted to harm the public, KIUC and the state. This is probably a crowd whose words live on in the internet and they will all, in the course of a well run investigation, be interviewed.

Anonymous said...

John Kauai, this is 4:22. Go to kfolta@blogspot.com and look in the archives for articles about Don Huber. Genetic Literacy Project is also a good place to look for articles about Huber and Streit.

John Kauai said...

That is an email address.
And you should be able to point me directly to the right achieve.
If I want to make a point, that is what I do.
So, pretty much, you appear to be talking through your hat.
But, I'm still willing to follow a "real link", none of that "look it up for yourself" stuff without a hint on where to go. If you present something interesting, I may follow up with additional research of my own. But probably not.

Anonymous said...

Also review this:

https://www.biofortified.org/2011/02/does-glyphosate-restrict-crop-mineral-uptake/

Anonymous said...

John Kauai, try typing in kfolta@blogspot.com into your browser and it will direct you to Kevin Folta's blog. If you want me to find the relevant articles about Don Huber, fine, I will direct you there.

Anonymous said...

kfolta.blogspot.com/2013/11/a-generous-offer-to-dr-huber.html

https://geneticmaize.wordpress.com/tag/debunking/

https://www.biofortified.org/2014/01/deconstructing-don-huber-a-tale-of-two-talks/

John Kauai, if you need more web addresses, let me know.

-4:22

John Kauai said...

Kevin Folta (whom you failed to identify) says a lot of stuff.
He apparently hates Don Huber. So what?

Folta has a nice resume, so does Huber.

Westinghouse pushed AC. Tesla wanted DC.
Westinghouse apparently hated Tesla. It isn't clear that the feeling was mutual.
AC won though, so if one wanted to write a history about it, I'm sure a "Donald Trump", who was more interested in making money than in providing great technology, would be involved.

Kenneth Conklin has a battle going with a UH prof who's name I can't remember at the moment (but it might be J. Kehaulani Kauanui) about Hawaiian Sovereignty. In this case, they do both hate each other.

Locally, Joan and Andy Parx disagree on events. I'm not taking sides, (Although I don't read Parx regularly, mostly because I hate Facebook).

The point is, you can't expect me to look at Folta's blog (which I confess I'm not interested in reading); searching through it (like I said he writes a lot of stuff); parsing through whatever he might say and believe that he is right and Huber is wrong.

You've "cherry-picked" the evidence against Huber to support your position and that "evidence" is just one guy's opinion.

At one time, there was the same kind of disagreement over the cause of Mad Cow Disease where some scientists said it was prions and other scientists were insistent that there was no such thing as a prion.

An even more "famous" example is the Roman Catholic Church prosecuting Galileo for declaring that the earth went around the sun rather than the sun went around the earth. The Priests knew Galileo was right, but they did him in anyway for political reasons. (I am not saying Folta is being paid "under the table". On the other hand there is that famous quote that suggests that what a man believes depends on who is paying him. So sorry I can't find the exact quote.)

IMHO, in his hatred of Huber, Folta is an ass. But that is my opinion. If I were to offer Folta's -specific- article to support an argument, I would also have made it clear that this was an alternate perspective. You've wasted more than enough of my time by insisting I "just believe" you. Joan would NEVER do that.

The idea that those of us on that comment on Joan's blog with absolute knowledge of the "truth" is hilarious. At the same time, that doesn't mean you should refrain from providing alternate explanations for whatever events you wish to comment on.

Yes, Huber's opinion on glyphosate caused me to look into its use more. He may be mistaken, but given all the articles (that aren't Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil or crap like that) I've found, I am very circumspect in my use of glyphosate. If you don't believe those articles, you are free to use it as much as you like -- on your land.

Joan Conrow said...

Wow, John. Comparing me to Andy Parx? That might actually get you banned from the blog! ;)

Anonymous said...

@5:14

It was there on Friday - something about a natural blowout or the work of menehune. I was ecstatic that he is so full of himself (and really-really-stupid) to post something so (IMO) incriminating, so I didn't take a screen shot. Needless to say, I was wrong, he's only really-stupid, and I should've taken a screenshot.

With great disappointment,
The Fired Photographer

John Kauai said...

I appreciate Joan that you recognize the point I was trying to make.

I don't believe anyone would consider that comparison to be an attack on your credibility vs. Parx. (Well, then there are Trump supporters so, I constantly overestimate the intelligence of the American Public.)

Thanks.


PS
Perhaps we could take a poll of "chemtrail" vs. "contrail". It would be interesting to see where people stand and see if it correlates to all the other conspiracy theories. (who killed JFK, Vince Foster, Gulf of Tonkin, who blew up the Maine) I'm all over the place with each. ;-)


Anonymous said...

John California!

Hahahahaha! whoever was stringing with you, well. he got you really good!

Congratulations pal! you did great!

Freaking funny! Way to blow some steam Mr. California!

A war of words and emotions, but sitting in paradise don't mean SHIT! Just keep on spot spraying your round up to make you feel good about yourself that you're not spraying toooo much, but just enough that's ok with you.

Now back to playing with the water. :-)

Anonymous said...

Island breath is a better Kauai blog site than Andy Parx News. Parx News was better before the county of Kauai goons scared the BaJesus out of him for his posts. But none can compare to KauaiEclectic. It has been a great 9 years. Next year will be a Happy 10th year anniversary to Kauaieclectic.

Harold Keyser said...

Don Huber did have a productive career as an agronomist. And if you listened to him in person you know that something happened. His evidence-free claims about disease, death and extinction level threats to civilization itself from GM crops and glyphosate has been nicely debunked by his colleagues at Purdue, though the misinformation is still promoted by reality-challenged Jeffery Smith and the Rodale group.

See: Glyphosate’s Impact on Field Crop Production and Disease
Development:
www.btny.purdue.edu/WeedScience/2011/GlyphosatesImpact11.pdf

Also, it is now more than seven years and Huber has not apparently isolated (or published on and shared with the scientific community) the actual disease causing agent. As Hitch reminded us, that which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And it should be.



Anonymous said...

Mr. Keyser, thank you, from the person who initially attempted to give John Kauai the opportunity to more accurately assess Dr. Huber's claims about glyphosate and the 'mystery organism' he claims he discovered. Given your proven track record, perhaps your credibility will prove helpful to him, and others.

Anonymous said...

After attending two unintelligible and pitiable presentations, one by Dr. Huber and the other by Bob Streit, I second Dr. Keyser and 5:32 AM.

Anonymous said...

Hey Felicia, Where's Don Heacock and Debbie Jackson to the rescue? Poor souls can't figure out what they want to grumble about today? No back up from your pals but they ask you for favors and air time? Better think twice who's your true homies.