Friday, February 17, 2017

Musings: So Much Hot Air

That hackneyed buzzword "sustainability" reared its ugly head today in a letter to the editor from the Hawaii Farmers Union (HFU) opposing the Mahaulepu dairy.

Aside from the very relevant question of whether the HFU, which produces just a tiny fraction of Hawaii's agricultural product, should dictate policies and practices, there is that niggling issue of WTH actually constitutes sustainability on a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific.

In her letter, Kapaa resident Eden Marie Peart writes:

[I]t is important for the public to understand the difference between HDF’s industrial dairy, with a large herd on limited acreage, and a sustainable dairy with sufficient acreage.

However, Peart doesn't put forth an image or definition of what a "sustainable dairy with sufficient acreage" would look like on Kauai. Nor does she tell us about HFU's own efforts to create the ideal it imagines. Instead — and this is what really bothers me about HFU and the antis they so often align with — she merely criticizes what is being proposed as not good enough.
 
Peart tells us that the National Farmers Union policy states a dairy program should "encourage and enable producers to use sustainable environmental practices” and “assist new farmers entering into farming,” before dismissing Hawaii Dairy Farms (HDF) as failing on both counts.

But HDF believes its rotational pasture model — based on New Zealand practices — is sustainable because it reduces the amount of imported fodder required to feed livestock. It also makes use of the manure to fertilize the grazing paddocks so they can produce fresh grass.

What's more, HDF will be contracting with local cattlemen to take the male calves, which enhances the sustainability of their ranching operations, and it provides a market for farmers — onstensibly some of whom may be "new" — who want to grow livestock fodder. If that production is able to reduce the importation of feed, it would boost the sustainability not only of the dairy, but others raising livestock on-island.

I was recently in New Zealand (where these pictures were taken) and while that country has had environmental problems associated with its dairy industry, largely because it is has expanded so widely and rapidly, its pasture-based model is nothing like the confined field lots of the US mainland, or the operation previously at Moloaa.
Peart also errs in stating the dairy would "imperil Kauai’s drinking water and wreak ecological havoc." Neither scenario is likely, according to the EIS, and Peart offers no documentation to support her assertions. We're just supposed to take her word for it, and join her in rejecting the project because it is "clearly contrary to the policy of the National Farmers Union."

Again, who cares what NFU thinks? They're a new organization in Hawaii, and their members have done precious little to actually advance productive agriculture in the Islands.

Peart then sniffs that the dairy "would regressively take us in a diametrically opposite direction from the food sovereignty that Hawaii and the world require for a livable future."

If she and others kill the Hawaii Dairy Farms project, there is no alternative dairy — sustainable or otherwise — waiting in the wings to take its place. Instead, it just means a perpetuation of the status quo: importing milk from the mainland. Or alternatively, more resort/tourism development. How can either of those scenarios be considered any more sustainable than the Mahaulepu dairy?

But HFU and other groups like it don't look at things in their real world context. Instead, they seek only their vision of perfection — even if failing to realize that goal means a perpetuation of practices that are clearly not sustainable.

Robert Zelkovsky, the Surfrider PR person who posts under the name "Dr Surf," has also criticized the dairy for failing to meet his definition of sustainability:

So what part of this operation IS sustainable? In ecology, sustainability (from sustain and ability) is the property of biological systems to remain diverse and productive indefinitely. Is it petroleum based fertilizer they say they will use? Nope. Is it the fuel used transporting milk to O`ahu for processing? Nope. Is it the gmo chem fed based feed they say they will need more and more of as time goes on? Nope. Is it the fuel used in transporting the calves continually born to the pregnant lactating cows? Nope.

To which I would respond, so tell us, Dr Surf, what part of your own life on Kauai is sustainable? Do you drive a car? Use electricity? Consume any food or other products imported from anywhere? Drink water? Buy any disposable products? Use any shipping services? Travel by airplane? Live in a house made from imported, termite-treated materials?

Like so many of the antis — and I'm willing to bet Peart is the same — he himself is living unsustainably even as he demands sustainability from a Kauai-based agricultural enterprise.

This double-standard continues to hinder agriculture in Hawaii, even as its proponents remain blind to both their hypocrisies and their own unsustainable existences in their adopted "paradise."

We all know it's virtually impossible to achieve true sustainability, especially on a remote island, and much less while turning a profit. If a dairy bankrolled by one of the world's richest men can't make it, what hope is there for the sustainable small farmer of Peart's bucolic dreams?

Before Peart and Dr Surf pass judgment on the dairy, they should examine their own lives and move forward with a viable alternative to HDF. Otherwise, it's just so much hot air, and with global temperatures rising, that's not sustainable, either.

66 comments:

Mervyn Tano said...

Is Hawai'i still importing unrefrigerated LIQUID milk from California?

Anonymous said...

yes and then it's pasturized again

Doug Vincent said...

It is my understanding that there are two models for dairy importation to Hawaii. The first as Mervyn asks is that pasteurized milk is shipped in bulk, unrefrigerated. Once it arrives, it is pasteurized a second time, packaged and the sell by date is based upon the second pasteurization. The other model is that the milk is pasteurized and packaged and shipped to Hawaii in refrigerated containers. The sell by date is based upon the original pasteurization. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Regardless, I can't imagine why wouldn't want the freshest milk possible in Hawaii. Not many opportunities for that in Hawaii.

Anonymous said...

It is bizarrely Trumpian for the Hawaii Farmers Union to decry the Omidyar dairy effort as unsustainable.
Ms Peart wants the public "to understand the difference between HDF’s industrial dairy, with a large herd on limited acreage, and a sustainable dairy with sufficient acreage."
But of course, she is saying the opposite of the truth. No dairy ever in Hawaii has run so few cattle on so many acres. It's not a feedlot dairy; it's the reverse. If it's not a major step in the direction of sustainability, one can't imagine what is.
Peart and the anti-dairy spin machine, like President Trump and his "well-oiled machine," should spend some time in front of a mirror, doing something other than putting lipstick on their lies.

Anonymous said...

Again I will say I am NOT against a dairy on the island but not there ..Surely people remember the Moloaa dairy....nice open space but they had the offices and themilking area close to the highway....soon the smell took over residents complained and the dairy was gone....Now remember the Waimea dairy...right on the highway also not so much grass there so lots of hay and grain was brought in...classes from schools used to go on a field day to visit the dairy...the soil is sandy....the smell was NOT overtaking you...we used to buy male calves from there...bring them home and bottle feed them...we had a small pasture so could not do more than two at a time 6 or 8 months apart we went out to cut grass every day and bring home a truck load for the animals....The canneries was still in operation so we got pineapple bran for feed also we always had beef in our freezer...every once in a while we scored a female and so we had milk also...those were the days....HOWEVER the soil at the new dairy location is clay...very hard...and lots of lava rock...when it rains the water sits.....I know we have a little farm there....

Anonymous said...

I'm for the dairy but your your assertion that everything we do is unsustainable so we should just do more unsustainable things is kind of stupid argument.

Anonymous said...

Joan, spot on, on your comments, particularly on the anti hypo-craziness comments and their utopian view of the world. Thank you for defining them so succinctly and accurately.

The aggravating problem about the vast majority of the anti-dairy commentors is, as you exemplify, so lacking in the facts regarding the intensive (Savory) grazing model and the history of the area. Their attempt to simplify with fear-mongering is a typical reflexive response of simple thinking. You nailed it!

Joan Conrow said...

@9:28 That is neither my assertion nor my argument. My point, which I reiterated at the end just in case readers missed it, was that people should clean up their own acts and actually put forward projects that meet their ideals before they go tearing down something that doesn't meet their definition of perfection. If it's so easy and so desirable, surely they can make it happen.

Anonymous said...

Joan, Perhaps you could contact and interview Ms. Pearl and find at exactly what her alternative would be? That would make for an excellent blog or two.

Anonymous said...

Actually a detailed Phd thesis found that Hawaiian fishponds produce much more protein than cattle with far less negative impact on the environment than cattle. The study was done on Molokai in the 1990s.

Anonymous said...

9:51 "people should clean up their own acts and actually put forward projects that meet their ideals before they go tearing down something that doesn't meet their definition of perfection."

Yes if you see something wrong and don't have a solution or have not reached personal perfection yourself STFU. Is that your point Joan?

Joan Conrow said...

No, 12:32, they can speak up. But they shouldn't be surprised if they aren't taken seriously. Especially if they are representing a group that claims to be advancing ag.

Anonymous said...

12:50 -"But they shouldn't be surprised if they aren't taken seriously. Especially if they are representing a group that claims to be advancing ag."

So a vegan cannot advance ag , while opposing the dairy? That does not seem correct.

Joan Conrow said...

That's your silly reasoning, 12:57, not mine.

Peter Antonson said...

12:57, Is it too much to ask that we leave faith-based religious ideologies like Veganism out of this argument?

Anonymous said...

Who gives a damn what the Hawaii Farmers Union United (HFUU) or its yardener members think about agriculture? This is a fraud group whose name should be Hawaii Fake Farmers United against Agriculture (HFFUaa). As you pointed out, Joan, they supply what infinitesimally small amount of food for Hawaii? No, they promote experimental farming with Hawaii tax payer subsidies.

And they are a rabid part of the anti-GMO and anti-pesticide movement in Hawaii. In fact, the group and the expanded anti movement here came about fairly simultaneously.

They pretend to be a part of the National Farmers Union in order to give them some credibility...only problem with that is that the VAST majority of National FU members are "real farmers" and grow GMO crops. And use poisons (pesticides).

Regarding their stance on the dairy, check out the NFU policy on the Clean Water Act and farming:
"Compliance with mandatory state and federal watershed TMDL regulations will create a hardship on family agricultural producers for compliance with state and federal water quality standards.
We support:
*Voluntary compliance and incentive-based, cost-sharing programs currently working to minimize production agriculture’s impact on our nation’s water quality;
*Regulations for the process to identify waters protected under the Clean Water Act (CWA) need to be made clearer, simpler, and faster;
*Exemptions for normal agricultural activities need to be reaffirmed;
*The application of best management practices (BMP) established by agencies of the USDA for disposal of poultry waste and animal manure, and recommend such manure be classified as soil supplements and plant food, and not toxic or hazardous waste. If BMP is subject to regulation, we urge the appropriate state department to be assigned as the regulator"

Hawaii FU's parent organization is all about protecting farms, even to the point of exempting themselves from environmental regulations, but at least they farm.

Anonymous said...

@12:57 pm,

With all due respect, You have the right to pick and choose what works for you. But every one else has the same rights too, not just you.

Anonymous said...

I know people criticize long comments but I have to add that the only reason Hawaii FU is allowed to remain a part of the National Farmers Union is because the NFU needs to show it's growing and has lots and lots of members, and members in every state. If Hawaii FU is a rogue outfit, so what, they're bringing up the numbers. The National group doesn't seem to recognize that Hawaii FU is changing policy here and that will set a terrible, non-science, arbitrary precedent for farming regulations across the country.

How incongruous that the Hawaii FU is anti GMO and anti pesticide, constantly pushing their bizarre agenda to destroy Hawaii ag at the legislature and in their barrages to the DOA.

This is the National Farmers Union policy on Pesticides:

"We support pesticide regulations that include:
*Continued prudent use of approved chemicals for crops, including expedited registrations for minor use pesticides and requiring EPA to use peer-reviewed, third-party science, such as land-grant universities, in their registration review process;

*Greater cooperation between EPA and USDA to help ensure that pesticide regulations and disposal do not unnecessarily interfere with normal farming practices and land transfers, such as requiring a mandatory buffer strip around productive farmland;

*An exemption from liability through EPA for groundwater cleanup for farmers who applied pesticides according to label directions;"

This policy is coming from real farmers -- those who know how hard it is to farm, even on the mainland, not like the Hawaii Fake Farmers United against Agriculture (HFFU).

John Kauai said...

I would like to recommend the second act of this "This American Life" podcast.
It discusses Harbor Seals in La Jolla and the sides taken by two different groups.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/582/when-the-beasts-come-marching-in

Bradley Choquette said...

Ya, THE Grange and the American Farmer's Union flipped to the darks side a long time ago. I'm curious, how many acres of pasture will the new Dairy have?

Joan Conrow said...

About 580 acres, using rotational pasture method with supplemental feed.

Anonymous said...

Grove Farm can access more water than Noah ever saw. Kauai's water comes from the depths and there are untold billions of gallons per day lurking. Just drill baby drill.
And before the Surfers freak out over the drill.....they water they drink in their Chai this morning is from a drilled well. The best, purest and cleanest water. Kauai is blessed.
Let the Dairy be built. We must show support for Ag efforts or GF may just have to become a Hooser Paradise of All Ag Estates. GF could put up thousands of Ag lots for housing in a scant few months, if pushed.
On the other hand-
If the Anti-Dairy folks need a lever---have them got look at all the Non-Ag activities at GF land by the Mill. The Old commercial use for Sugar was for Ag. Unless they got a Class I$ permit, all those activity people, trash companies and construction crews are leasing out on suspicious interpretations of the CZO.
Of course, the Planning Department is famous for preferential enforcement and perhaps have overlooked this.
The Planning Department controls everything. And the rules are written and enforced by Mike D........Mike D is a real blow pal of Arryl Kaneshiro (a GF honcho) and others that benefit by Mike's iron-fisted selective enforcement - In GF's case the iron fist is smooth, soft and udderly well placed.

Anonymous said...

I actually ran a family dairy farm on Kauai back in the day, the last independent one on the island. It was pasture-based but we still had to import grain and some roughage, especially after the pineapple canneries closed and we no longer had pineapple bran available. I can say this; Joan knows what she's talking about.

Anonymous said...

Moloaa and the water well is still contaminated and the shit stunk for miles.

Anonymous said...

The Molaa well is NOT polluted

Anonymous said...

8:30 be real, Moloaa was contaminated by the pineapple industry that used heptachlor, a persistent pesticide that contaminated the land. That's where most of the organic farms are located. The dairy in Moloaa had used pineapple tops for feed, those ended up contaminating the milk. It was not the smell of the cow or cow poop that caused the shutdown. How many organic farms in Moloaa do soil tests for past contamination of pesticides? Our conversations need to be real, not just fear based. I'll take 600 cows over 600 people, way less BS.

Anonymous said...

So now Grove Farm has two voices on the Council, Kaneshiro who is an employee of theirs plus Kawakami who was just appointed to their subsidiary the Waioli Corporation!

Anonymous said...

"State agency recommends rejecting EIS for proposed Kauai project." Now what you Ag geniuses?

Anonymous said...

Joan, Where will the water for the dairy come from? Is the way that water is obtained legal according to state law? I have heard there is a big problem with Grove Farm and how it gets and uses its water. In fact, I have even heard they may be sued over their illegal uses and diversion of water. Any information you can supply clearing up this issue will be appreciated.

Joan Conrow said...

@10:56. DOH, and not OEQC, makes the decision on whether to accept EIS. And even if it is rejected, Hawaii Dairy Farms can go back and address the concerns raised by OEQC and resubmit.

@11:20. Water will come from Waita reservoir. I haven't heard of any lawsuits regarding Grove Farm's ownership of that reservoir, but anything is possible.

Anonymous said...

So if grove farm is illegally diverting water according the the state constitution, is this diversion connected to Waita reservoir? Are they two separate issues? Lawsuits will be against illegal diversions, not ownership of the reservoir. Rumor has it that Grove Farm is actually profiting off the illegal diversion of water upstream, far away from Waita. Maybe you can research this and share on a blog later, Joan?

Anonymous said...

How can the Department of Health reject a voluntary EIS?

Anonymous said...

Because it conviently left out important information.

Anonymous said...

I meant, how does DOH have authority to accept or reject a VOLUNTARY EIS?

Bradley Choquette said...

IS this 700 cows milking all the time or 700 cows with the dry cows? Dairy cows usually have an annual drying off period of 40-70 days. Their feed consumption during this period is usually 60% of what a milking cow eats... IF it's 700 cows total, they should have nearly enough grass with Hawaii's rain fall and full growing season. However, some supplemental grain and DDG should increase output significantly. Plus, very little shit spreading being pasture raised, and less utter problems too.

There was a dairy that tried grazing a mixture of oats and turnip to dairy cattle. That high protein, nutrient dense feed, provided excellent milk production without supplementation. However, the milk tasted like turnips, so they abandoned the system....

Anonymous said...

February 18, 2017 at 10:03 AM said:"So now Grove Farm has two voices on the Council, Kaneshiro who is an employee of theirs plus Kawakami who was just appointed to their subsidiary the Waioli Corporation!"

The above comment is obviously the product of uninformed "alternative fact" hack of the worst type- a completely ignorant sloth too damned lazy to check the facts before comenting.
Waioli Corporation is not a subsidiary of Grove Farm and the asshole making that comment would, in an earlier Kauai, apologize to Councilman Kawakami!

Anonymous said...

Please cover the TAT story. Tokioka's comments are disturbing. He voted for something that he'll vote against if it remains in the form that he already voted for?? This will absolutely result in an increase in GET and/or property taxes. Do we honestly need more taxes on tourism? At what point do tourists, Hawaii's customers from a business perspective, look elsewhere for a more affordable offering?

Anonymous said...

That's payback for losing the state millions of dollars in transient accommodations tax (TAT) that Joan wanted to pretend the vacation rentals weren't paying. Cease and desist orders were sent out, vacation rentals shut down, no more transient accommodations tax (TAT) being paid by the shut down vacation rentals, no more money to be handed out. Outer islands only got a small percentage of th e TAT money and now they get none.

Anonymous said...

This is double talk collusion like when the counties said they were bankrupt because the state of Hawaii is bankrupt and needed to raise taxes and get federal funds. Haha good for these weak ass bitches and all you who voted for that crook Tokioka.

It took the contractors a week to build the road to the new hanamaulu housing and if this was county or state road then it would have taken them at least 3 to 5 years minimum. They Milking the tax payers like we're the Koloa dairy cows and that's horse shit.

Anonymous said...


@ 10:03 am 's comment

"So now Grove Farm has two voices on the Council, Kaneshiro who is an employee of theirs plus Kawakami who was just appointed to their subsidiary the Waioli Corporation!"

For the record your information is inaccurate and bogus. Grove Farm as it is today is owned outright by Steve Case who purchased the properties from the Wilcox heirs. The Wilcox heirs though have taken it upon themselves to preserve some of the history of the plantation era through the Waioli foundation, which I donate to annually.

Anonymous said...

Tokioka is correct. Let the bill ride a bit, before you vote no. The system is corrupt. The State is holding on to all its money, because ultimately when the 10 billion unpaid state/county pension funds become due, the 5 billion needed for the Honolulu Rail and untold millions for roads. Plus the teachers are set to do a big push for big raises.
Teachers work half a year and expect huge pay. Another example of an overpaid and unproductive State run business. Kauai kids are at the low of low end of ALL National test scores. Many grads have hard time for talk, li' dat. Embarrassing. Today there are less than half of a school's employees (teachers included) in a classroom...the rest are in the management offices. A Joke. just like the Road crews....six men and 2 shovels for every hole.
Plus 160 plus cops on an island with only 85,000 de facto population.....another place where half are sitting in the air conditioned offices and half on the streets.
Almost every area of State/County employment is used to soak the tax payer and create comfy jobs for the friends and family of the political and union powers.
And all they have to do to alleviate Kapaa traffic is leave the CONES up til 3PM........but Oh No...the State Highways can't have more bodies out of the offices and into the trucks. So they let Lihue Bound cars wait in a line of hundreds of cars and hours of time.
Not a leader in the group. Only crybabies looking for more money to spend and not a plan to save one dime.
Some day this system will crumble.
9:27 is correct.....private contractor build the flare lane and road in a flash and at fraction of cost. And the poor Kalepa Condo across the street, ran by the County cost well over Gov 600,000 per unit...when a private builder could have done it for 390K. The Government has harpooned the citizen. C'mon Mel, where are you? Any ideas? Nope, just quibbling over manini BS. And tho' the County looks at building a few Bus Stops as a great achievement.....perhaps others look at these bus stops as a Week End Rotary project. It is so simple. Low expectations, no leadership, no results and bad roads, no housing choke traffic, high taxes etc.
In the past while THE ONLY nice projects have been.....A Hyatt Style Court House, A futuristic Police Station, Ornate Re-built County Building....all for the poiticians. And now they even want the next project- The Tiger Grant to beautify their front yard at rice Street.
For the Politicians, by the Politicians and OF THE POLITICIANS.

Anonymous said...

The bigger question to me is why are we advancing production of cows or milk at all?
Cow milk is bad for us - its scientific fact. The milk of antibiotic-fed cows is the equivalent of puss.
Cattle industry contributes to climate change.
We would not need to GMO de-horn the cow if we stopped eating them.
Pro Ag., but not pro cow industry here.

Anonymous said...

The stream of alternative facts that flow through this blog is really something to behold!!
The Moloa'a well No. 1 for farmers in the Hui Lands is not polluted and is the source of a public drinking water supply that undergoes rigorous monthly, quarterly, and annual testing per Safe Drinking Water Act. The Moloa'a Dairy was shut down in the early 2000's because of threats of law suits by downstream landowner for violating the Clean Water Act. The Moloa'a dairy also did not feed pineapple chop because the pineapple industry on Kaua'i was pau long before that site was used for dairy. The heptachlor tainted milk was from cows on Oahu and that occurred back in the 80's.
Milk from the mainland cannot be sent to Hawai'i unrefrigerated. That would violate the Federal Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (PMO). Unrefrigerated milk when it arrived after a 5 day voyage would be separated into sour and spoiled whey and curd. No amount of pasteurization would bring it back. HDF will not succeed due to its stocking rate alone. No grass-fed system with that stocking rate on the soil and drainage found in Mahaulepu is going to make it. They will have to rely on imported feed for the protein source that dairy cows need. HDF will realize the same economic measure for failure that all its predecessor dairies had - it is cheaper to send finished milk to Hawaii than it is to send feed for the cows and then process the milk here. Just shipping empty gallon jugs to Hawai'i alone is a money loser. There is one dairy on the Big Island that is still in operation because it has sufficient land to grow its own feed and ample pasture as well. HDF might by some long-shot pull this off on Kaua'i, but not in Mahaulepu. There is plenty of land opening up on the west side that is cheap now that Corn is no longer King.
We need to ask ourselves why, oh why, did they choose this worst-case-scenario site to start with?

Anonymous said...

How could it imperil drinking water? The nearest drinking well is more than a mile away and like the vast majority of our wells, takes from a aquifer rather deep, usually bypassing those near the surface. In the dairy's case, any shallow aquifer would be flowing away from the well anyway.

Anonymous said...

If the Moloaa drinking aquifer is polluted, it was done between 90 and two hundred years ago. Because that is how old the water is, depending on which well.
Wailoi is not part of Grove Farm.
I like milk and ice cream. That is why dairies are needed.
Tokioka knows what he is doing. He is exchanging a courtesy to get a bill out of committee.It does not mean he will vote for it. It means the courtesy will be returned and a Bill Jimmy thinks is important to Kauai may get a fair vote and chance.

Anonymous said...

9:23 what crap, the county shutting down illegal operations does not affect the amount of taxes. The visitor who didn't stay in your illegal rental stayed at a legal one who paid the taxes. There was no net loss.

Anonymous said...

Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.

Teachers should only be paid less than minimum wage. They are nothing more than glorified babysitters. And we should pay them the same way.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM
with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.


And it ain't teacher pay.

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your
kids!)

Anonymous said...

You forgot that the county has doubled its employee total from 700 to nearly 1500 since Baptiste and Carvalho has taken over and it's less efficient and home boy gift wrapped the hardy street cleaning crew hundreds of thousands like the princeville shuttle after spending millions on that mess. Do t forget that we pay over a million dollars in the red for a few golfers to enjoy their luxury leisure activity for almost nothing at $40 a month. The parks and recs like the county DOT is in shambles. They need to drug test those fuckers because many are convicted DUI/OVUII offenders. YES CONVICTS driving buses. It a fricking ZOO on Kauai but neva mine defend Hawaii

It's insane to not be pissed off.

Bradley Choquette said...

I had a bacon cheese omelet for breakfast. The chicken and milk cow contributed. The pig was committed.

Dehorned cows are not a GMO, but they eat GMO grains.

The "scientific fact" that milk is bad for humans is propaganda discerned by vegans pushing their cause... There is credible sciences to substantiate the health benefits of milk to humans.. Not that @ 10:51 would believe evidence that echoes outside their echo chamber; which is why farmers continue the dialoged.

Anonymous said...

Bradley, "Not so, says Dr. T. Colin Campbell Ph.D, Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University who has authored more than 350 research papers. He is also Winner of the 1998 American Institute of Cancer Research Award, the 2004 Burton Kallman Scientific Award by the Natural Nutrition Food Association.
In "The China Study," (Benbella Books, 2005), he presents the findings of a 45 year study and a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine. And what is startling about the conclusions of his study is that cow’s milk (87% of which is made of the protein casein) actually encourages the growth of cancer cells in rats and humans. The China Study shows unequivocally that all meat is suspect: "nutrients from animal-based foods increased tumor development" while "nutrients from plant-based foods decreased tumor development."

Anonymous said...

2/20 @ 7:34 AM, less than 10 minutes on Google yielded many excellent analyses of the flaws inherent in The China Study, including from the American Institute for Cancer Research as well as from distinguished nutritionists. Suggest you keep on researching.

Anonymous said...

So your suggesting that the American Institute for Cancer Research took the award the award they gave him away after they gave it to him? @8:21 . And yet he is still employed by Cornell University, the holy grail of this blog.

Anonymous said...

Yeah fact denying runs high on both sides.
The GMO crowd would have you believe that meat and milk are good for you. Science clearly shows the contrary.
The antis are also loath to modify their view to incorporate the truth.
So the two sides call each other liars all day in a circle jerk of non-progress.

Anonymous said...

2/20 @ 9:02 AM, this is 8:21 AM, calm down. Dr. Campbell is a respected scientist, and nothing I wrote should suggest otherwise. So don't put words in my mouth.

That doesn't change the fact that The China Study has a number of problems, and there is a good body of work that points to flaws in some of his assertions. So, have you read any of those analyses that are critical of The China Study?

Anonymous said...

Good work Joan but I still don't understand why no one has pressured mr Omidar to construct a dairy processing plant if in fact this milk is for Kauainei. Truth be told Chinese will pay the most for it.

Anonymous said...

You are misinformed, 11:52. The "GMO crowd" has not taken a stance that milk and meat are good for people. There is no scientific consensus that consuming either is inherently bad for people, aside from those who are lactose intolerant. Humans evolved consuming animal meat and milk. It all depends on quantity and quality.

Anonymous said...

oh there is @1:01 you just don't want to believe it

Anonymous said...

1:01 you are denying the truth to fit your dogma.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified processed meat as a carcinogen, something that causes cancer. And it has classified red meat as a probable carcinogen, something that probably causes cancer. IARC is the cancer agency of the World Health Organization.

Anonymous said...

2/20 @ 1:27 PM, you are leaving out a whole lot of information with your statement. For starters, please give us a complete background on the IARC.

1:25 PM do you have a citation that supports your contention?

John Kauai said...

Being alive is ultimately hazardous to one's health.

The religious conviction that something is bad or good and that the objections (or promotions) of the "other side" are either evil or at best "just stupid" is, for want of a better way of saying it, "just stupid".

@11:52 nailed it.

@3:11 rant against teachers excellently illustrates the situation. The selective use of facts; the total misrepresentation of the nature of the job; and finally the absolutely false claim that anyone can do it, illustrates an ignorant, angry man on a mission at best or at worse a "Betsy DeVos" scam artist that is selling snake oil to enrich himself and his co-conspirators. Probably a Republican voter, if he bothers to vote at all.

Anonymous said...

I don't think you read all of 3:11 comment John Kauai. It's not against teachers, it's pro teacher and a spoof on those complaining about their pay

Anonymous said...

Looks like the county is trying to create more useless jobs for under qualified family members. When an auditor exposed criminal activity and corruption, they went after him and fired him. What a joke this county has become. Nothing more than sandbox kids trying to run the playground like they back in elementary school. Fools!

Council may establish investigation commiteee

Jenna Carpenter - The Garden Island Posted: 16 hours ago

LIHUE — The County of Kauai will discuss a resolution that will allow the County Council to establish an investigating committee when it meets…

Ray Maki said...

I wanted to add a few points for clarification .
Eden Peart does not speak for HFUU, and according to our records, is not even a member of our organization.
The mission of HFUU is to support the family farmer in Hawaii,primarily focussing on markets, water, housing , new crop development,and education for beginning and working farmers in the state. These topics are where we have devoted our efforts and resources. No one issue defines HFUU,and although most of our members do oppose GE technology and pesticide farming, members engage in those efforts to oppose GE through their membership in other organizations. We are a solutions oriented group, not "antis".HFUU is a state chapter of the NFU, and has developed its policy using NFU national policy and adapting Hawaii state policy to reflect the interests of our members. We are primarily a group of farmers and affiliates interested in organic field production techniques, and the field concerns of the family farmer.
Speaking for our organization, I can say that we are not opposed to the Kauai dairy in concept. Concerns that we have are the ecological sensitivity of the site itself, and HDF's waste management plans for the dairy. FOMs concerns are compelling and obviously the DOH and the courts agree that more information is needed. The dairy would probably be better sited in an upland area where cows are already being run successfully.
HFUU remains committed to collegial relationships with other Hawaii farmers, and is working hard to refine organic field techniques that can be used by other commercial farming systems as well. Aloha and Kauai "style" is how we prefer to engage with other producers and ag advocates.
Ray Maki - President Kauai Chapter HFUU

Joan Conrow said...

Thanks for your comment, Ray, and for clarifying that Eden Peart is not even a member, even though she was speaking for your group.

However, I would like to point out that even though you say HFUU "developed its policy using NFU national policy" and is "primarily interested in organic field techniques," that is not the policy of the national organization.

Additionally, cattle were being successfully pastured at the dairy site before the dairy took over the land.

What's more, even though you were appointed to the Kauai Agricultural Advisory Committee, a standing county committee, you have yet to attend a meeting, having missed the last three. I would think that if you're truly committed to supporting family farmers, you'd at least show face.

The bottom line is that the great majority of HFUU's members are not farmers at all, even as they try to dictate ag policy, and therein lies some of the antagonism toward your group.

John Kauai said...

@3:39 WRT @3:11
If the comment was suppose to be satire I'm missing it.

It still reads to me as a rant I've heard from many who really despise teachers. I've re-read it several times. Yes, it is over the top, but I get many emails from groups that sound just like this and they definitely mean what they write about. The only difference between those emails and the @3:11 "satire" is that there are no Font Changes, or All- Caps phrases or changes in color or having been forwarded as many as 10 times without any other comment.

Anonymous said...

FYI, Joan, many members of Hawaii state and Kauai County Farm Bureaus are not farmers. HFUU is member run...not Board run. HFB certainly does its part to dictate policy without polling its members. They regularly lobby the state leg. There is one annual meeting by KCFB where members are asked to vote for officers on a SLATE, not as individuals on their merits, without the privacy of a closed ballot. At 2016 KCFB meeting there was no treasurer's report. No transparency. HFUU meets monthly with wide range of educational topics. All members can participate.
BTW, those are beef cattle in your NZ photos. While beef cattle have long grazed Mahaulepu, never No WAY at the density HDF proposes. There is more dense-ness than just the density of their stocking rate in HDF proposal. Grass-fed??? What a sham and a shame.