Friday, August 5, 2016

Musings: Revolutionary Rhetoric

Earthjustice has a great little scam going.

First, it joins forces with advocacy groups and ideologues to frighten people about pesticides — but only pesticides used by agriculture. Then it encourages the fearful and misinformed to file countless complaints with the state Department of Agriculture.

Now it's asking the federal Environmental Protection Agency to take over pesticide enforcement because the state supposedly isn't doing a good enough job in handling those complaints. Like the EPA, which operates out of California, will somehow do better?

EJ then sends its EPA request, which dredges up the Waimea Canyon School stinkweed incident and characterizes the Kekaha Ditch as an “open sewer,” over to Civil Beat. 

EJ attorney Paul Achitoff knows his embedded reporter, Anita Hofschneider, will happily help him smear DOA by printing his bald-faced lie: "The public is at risk and the Department of Agriculture is asleep at the wheel."

No, the public is not at risk, and the DOA is wide awake. In fact, the DOA is doing everything that EJ demands. It's hired more inspectors, and is bringing on still more. It's greatly reduced its backlog of complaints.

But EJ isn't actually looking for results. It just wants to stir up shit and make DOA look bad after it and other anti-GMO groups have fricking buried DOA's small staff with their unrelenting demands and complaints.

Yet even as EJ asks the feds to come in and take over, it and its cohorts are crying for home rule. You just can't have it both ways, except in the world of smarmy rhetoric where Achitoff and his attorneys reside.

Sadly, this nonsense is costing taxpayers serious money, while EJ, etc. use these false complaints to solicit donations and file lawsuits that allow them to further fleece taxpayers by collecting legal fees, even if they don't prevail.

Like I said, it's quite a scam. Especially when the decidedly black-hatted — and hearted — Achitoff portrays himself as the good-guy champion for Earth and the underdog. We're on to ya, Paul. Or at least, some of us are.

We're also on to the DNC finger flipper and Bernie backer, Chelsea Kent, who has taken to the Star-Advertiser and Civil Beat to claim her childish gesture was not only justified, but noble, effective — revolutionary, even.
Uh, Chelsea, ya might wanna listen to Gil Scott Heron's anthem: “The revolution will not be televised.” And it sure as hell ain't gonna break out on the floor of the DNC in the Wells Fargo Center, no less.
In skimming Kent's little whine-a-thon — “We were told our candidate would have a fair chance, if we worked hard and followed the rules. We worked hard. We followed the rules. We were lied to. We were dismissed. We are not wanted.” Waaah! — I was reminded of the remark made by one of her fellow travelers during the hearings over the pesticide-GMO regulatory bill 2491: “We marched, and they still never passed the law.”
Wake up. Politics is an ugly, dirty business, which many of the Hawaii Berners should know, since they've been manipulating the political system to attack agriculture. But what they either forget, never knew, or refuse to believe is that political change is a long, slow process.  

Those who have power are loathe to yield it — especially to loudmouthed newbies who think they somehow gained standing because they bought into the fantasy that their 20-year career politician candidate was a “political outsider” who was going to launch a revolution. Until a dastardly conspiracy cheated him of the victory that was rightfully his.

The DNC was never going to concede anything to a candidate who joined the party simply to run for office, and promptly resign once he lost. But his supporters, like Chelsea, couldn't wait to play the victim card and whimper about how it hurts to have their illusions dashed.

Welcome to the cold, hard world. Grow up.

If Chelsea and her pals are really serious about revolution they'd best be prepared for sacrifices that go well beyond “begging for financial help” and “spending a precious week away from my three young children.” Until then, giving the finger just proves how powerless she/they really are.

Speaking of power, the almighty Facebook totally caved to the anti-GMO crowd and shut down the popular “‘We Love GMOs and Vaccines” page. It was created by a middle-school science teacher Stephan Neidenbach, who suffered the usual vicious attacks of anyone who dares to counter the anti-GMO message. But he persevered. So his foes ganged up to make countless complaints against the page until Facebook pulled it.

A Facebook representative on the phone explained that when enough people report a page or a post in a short period of time, Facebook automatically removes it. This technique isn’t just being used by the anti-science movement, but also by oppressive regimes around the world to stifle dissent. The Verge reported on how these tactics are employed by the Vietnamese government to silence journalists and activists.

It is utter insanity that Facebook allows these gangs of thugs to act as judge, jury and “executioner.” I understand that Facebook wants to keep a reputation for a “safe” environment, but allowing  keyboard renegades free reign stifles freedom of expression, which is what has made the Internet so great.

The anti-vaccers and anti-GMOers and other groups who not only defy science but attack those who promote independent thinking are not satisfied with just trying to block on the pages of science communicators, they are intent on preventing everyone else–you–from seeing independent information as well. In history class I teach of great wars fought against tyrants who do just that.

Funny, how so many of the same folks talking revolution are keen to adopt the tactics of the world's most repressive regimes. Kinda makes you wonder just what sort of revolution they have in mind.


Anonymous said...

Bald-faced vs. boldface
If you need a word meaning shameless, brazen, or obvious, use the phrasal adjective bald-faced (and don’t forget the hyphen). Of course, this adjective can also be used to describe an unadorned and shaven face. The adjective boldface (not boldfaced) refers to text that looks like this. It has no other uses.

Joan Conrow said...

Thank you! Correction made.

Anonymous said...

wow, are you defending the state Joan? if it wasn't for the public pressure (legal and legislative) HDOA would not have the extra resources you are referring to. your apologist attitude towards the state is surprising. you've come along way, baby!

Joan Conrow said...

Oh, yes, the additional inspectors and resources that are only needed to respond to the BS. This isn't about being an apologist for the state. It's about calling out the scammers. But looks like you swallowed the lockstep mentality "state bad, EJ good" hook, line and sinker. Try think. It's good for the brain.

Anonymous said...

Joan, Why do you love to paint those who have questions about pesticides used in agriculture and about gmo safety as anti-ag and anti-science. How on earth can farmers who question the use of certain pesticides be called anti-ag? I have never met any person in my life who has told me they are against agriculture and that humanity should return to hunting and gathering only. And the thousands of scientists around the world who are questioning the safety of various gmoʻs- are these scientists anti-science? Maybe it is time to stop generalizing and labeling people with these useless and inflammatory terms? To question the use of glyphosate in agriculture does not make one anti-ag. To question the effects of safety of gmoʻs upon the body and the environment does not make one anti-science.

Anonymous said...

IT IS NOT A SCAM!!!!! yOU would know if you had to live through it, WE KNOW IT WAS NOT STINKWEED!!!!!!

Joan Conrow said...

@10:05 The people I'm talking about aren't just "questioning" biotech and glyphosate. They're trying to ban both. And since their efforts are typically grounded in fear and emotionalism, with no thought for the consequences or bigger picture, their actions play out as anti-science and anti-ag.

Plus, much as Earthjustice, Center for Food Safety, HAPA, Hawaii SEED, Hooser and the rest love to talk about local food, they've actually done zilch to support local agriculture. Instead, they've just supported causes that harm ag. Hence, the perception that they are anti-ag.

Anonymous said...

The "state" is corrupt to the bone. Stole the land from Hawaiians, stole the Hawaiian Kingdom. Thieves who ignore their own dishonesty and the sins of their ancestors. The state which is beholden to foreign corporate and military interests at the expense of the public. Joan is right- "try think. Itʻs good for the brain." Try to think about the corporations running gmo-ag, try to read their history. Try to understand why some of them are the most hated corporations in the world. Try to learn how they, and other kinds of corporations such as weapons and pharmaceutical developers and manufacturers, have taken over the US government which may now be called an oligarchy. Learn how they have inserted themselves into power with universities such as Cornell. So yes, everybody- wake up, do your research, and begin the wonderful process of thinking for yourself!

Anonymous said...

Joan, don't let these fear stirring idiots bully you. There are thousands of tax payers who don't realize how much of their valuable taxes are being wasted on these useless law suits. Since when is it necessary to test ditch or irrigation water that has been tainted from plantation days. The State is only now, after terrible and deep funding cuts from the Lingle administration, trying to clean up with the limited staff they have.

Anonymous said...

Joan, How exactly does wanting to ban glyphosate, which many scientists consider dangerous, "play out as anti-science"? How can you say those who wish to ban the poison glyphosate, including scientists, have "no thought for the consequences or bigger picture"? As a parent, I question having glyphosate show up in my childʻs blood. I do have thoughts about the "consequences" of this, and also of the "bigger picture". I am not anti-science or anti-ag. I am just as intelligent as you, and from what I have learned researching glyphosate, I think it should be banned.

Anonymous said...

The waste is on the people who are hired and paid to do the job that they refuse to do.

You don't need a brand new 60K suv to go test water.

When you refuse to do your job duties and responsibilities then that's when you need to go or they need to go.

Fire and replace the two people in charge of gathering samples but failed to do so. State employees are just as bad as county employees and the majority are a complete waste of tax payer paid salaries.

Joan Conrow said...


I do have thoughts about the "consequences" of this, and also of the "bigger picture".

So if you get your wish and glyphosate is banned, then how do you propose farmers control the weeds that they are now controlling with glyphosate — without using a more dangerous herbicide, engaging in more tilling or incurring higher costs?

Anonymous said...

Why we must be cautious about GMOʻs. Some interesting quotes, from the link at the end- 1.What's potentially more devastating for the planet is that genetically modified organisms developed by companies like Monsanto and DuPont can escape into our ecosystems and potentially wreak havoc before they are even tested or approved as safe. 2.In the early 1990s, a European genetic engineering company was preparing to field test its genetically modified version of Klebsiella planticola, which it had tested in the lab and presumed to be safe. But if it weren't for the work of a team of independent scientists led by Dr. Elaine Ingham, that company could have literally killed every terrestrial plant on the planet. Read the article here -

Anonymous said...

@10:55 I am sure that humans are intelligent enough to find better alternatives. The first thing that comes to mind is permaculture practices. Joan, why donʻt you yourself research alternatives to glyphosate and share your findings with us readers? And by the way, shouldnʻt health of land and body be considered before cost? Shouldnʻt health of land and body be more important than anything else??

Joan Conrow said...

@11:01 Truth out is a propaganda organ financed in part by anti-GMO advocates.

GMOs are indeed tested and approved before they ever hit the market. That's why they do the field tests you referenced. If anything, your citation shows that the testing, review and approval process works.

But it's OK. You can be very afraid if you want to. Some people get off on that. Terror is a huge entertainment industry.

And yes, 11:12, I figured you didn't really have any answers or solutions or alternatives, because you haven't really thought things through. So much easier to spout off and then tell someone else to do the research.

Anonymous said...

Good ag practices improve and maintain good soil conditions. Big ag on Kauaʻi is notorious for destroying the health of the soil. Just ask anyone who is trying to farm on top of an old pineapple plantation. It is time to consider what good ag entails. It is also time to consider what sustainability means and which ag practices are the most sustainable and beneficial for the environment. To be against practices that degrade soil, water and air quality does not mean that one is anti-ag.

Anonymous said...

"Just ask anyone who is trying to farm on top of an old pineapple plantation."

That's where the Kauai organic farms!!!

Anonymous said...

Joan, I am 11:12. You say, "I figured you didn't really have any answers or solutions or alternatives, because you haven't really thought things through." Why are you ignoring my suggestion that permaculture is an alternative. I do not need to go into depth. Anyone can google permaculture and research themselves. Your accusation is completely unwarranted. I offered an alternative, permaculture, and it is you who are ignoring it. You accuse me of "spouting off". Why is offering permaculture as a solution "spouting off"? I have done my research and continue to do so. I will not take up your readers time by posting massive amounts of permaculture information. I politely answered your question for alternatives, with a suggestion (not command) that you research this alternative and share what you learn with readers. I am taken aback by the tone of your comment.

Anonymous said...

@ 11:30- Yes, many organic farmers are regenerating the dead soil leftover by big ag. Mahalo nui loa to all of these farmers for the great service they are providing our island!

Anonymous said...

The soil obviously wasn't dead if they're growing in it. Doh.

Anonymous said...

11:54 You obviously have no experience farming on such land. How much hard work is needed to restore and maintain healthy soil. Pineapple plantation soil is as close to dead as you can get. Takes a long time to revive. Go out and talk to the farmers.

Anonymous said...

IT IS NOT A SCAM!!!!! yOU would know if you had to live through it, WE KNOW IT WAS NOT STINKWEED!!!!!! screamed August 5 @10:30AM

Actually the study said the cause was probably methylisothyocyanate, an organic compound found in "stinkweed" giving it a pronounced odor. At the time of the incident(s), the west side was observed to have a large flush of cleome gynandra (stinkweed)- especially the WCMS area.

Methyl isothiocyanate

Methyl isothiocyanate is the organosulfur compound with the formula CH3N=C=S. This low melting colorless solid is a powerful lachrymator. As a precursor to a variety of valuable bioactive compounds, it is the most important organic isothiocyanate in industry.

And here's a definition of lachrymator to help you along: a substance that irritates the eyes and causes tears to flow as tear gas.

Don't be so dismissive when you SCREAM before you think.

Anonymous said...

Just read the Truthout article. Here is a quote, "Beyond that, we really don't know how this Round-up ready wheat will impact local ecosystems, whether it will wipe out non-GMO wheat, or whether it could bio-accumulate in the food chain and eventually have an impact on top predators, like humans." So Joan, where is the science addressing this question? The science that will lay all our fears to rest?

Anonymous said...

There is absolutely no science showing GMOs have no adverse effects upon the ecosystem or are healthy and beneficial for the environment. That is the problem. The ecosystem is being used as a guinea pig by companies who have no scientific proof that such experiments are safe. No wonder many are fearful about unintended consequences of GMOs escaping from "confinement" into the environment.

Anonymous said...

August 5, 2016 at 12:24 PM
There is no science on God's Good Earth that will allay your fears. You wouldn't recognize it anyway. Pray for salvation.

Anonymous said...

8/5 @ 12:24pm, if you went to Truthout, you went to the wrong place. And if you're asking where the science is, then you lack the knowledge and education to understand the science...because it's out there, available and understandable. But it doesn't help the cause of the fear-mongerers.

Joan Conrow said...

4:59. Youre talking bubbles. Every GE crop on the market has had to prove it won't cause harm to the environment or humans in order to be deregulated.

Anonymous said...

Joan, So are you saying that GMOs escaping confinement and breeding in the wild pose no threats to the ecosystem? And what about scientists all over the world who are questioning the safety of such GMO contamination?

Anonymous said...

Speak for yourself 10:22 AM.
We is not me. I know it WAS stinkweed.

Anonymous said...


Joan Conrow said...

@1:24. I'm saying exactly what I said. All the rest is what you are saying.

Anonymous said...

Joan, I love today's post. this post struck a nerve in all of these comments which bring you back to the post. people don't like you on one side so they go gang busters in blowing you up. Exactly what you wrote about.

Half a day and already 31 posts!

YEAH!!!! Same freaking argument, different year!

You're a son (daughter) of a bitch! GOOO! your freaking Revolution!

Ha, ha, ha, ha!!! you all freaking wack jobs!

Excellent topic! Yep! this is a EJ scam to get $$$$!!!!

ALOHA Friday you all!

Anonymous said...

Let me tell you all!

Instead of grabbing money and expose the rich corporate fuckers!

go grab the money from the trust babies (from these freaking rich corporate parents) and go FUND ONE FUCKING FARM! put that money to work instead of bitching about other peoples action (revolution!!).

Take the money, rent the lands, plant your grasses, your trees, your crop take care of the soils in these idle lands and show everyone how to farm, corporate style.

Take the money and go manage the Mana plains the way you know you can do it EJ.

Seriously, stop the talk, do the action with your trust fund / corporate money. I'm challenging EJ, Center for Food Safety Action, Fern, HAPA, Ashley and all you talkers. Go rent these lands and put the money to great use. (Loosier's)

Come on! go fund you (not me) and fill all our open lands with agriculture and take care of the land with your raised funds. Can you imagine if you all did it back in 2491, you'd be harvesting already.

Do the permaculture seed corn growing, set up your infrastructure, grow the seeds the corporation wants in the permaculture way and get paid for doing it. what's great about doing it! You'll sell 100% of the crop to the corporations. where as the other way (small time farming), half your crop is wasted due to no sales, low grade quality.

Don't beat up on them, show them!

Just like TUSI! point out the problems! Lame actions.

TUSI for Secretary of State! Stay close to both candidates and get this job. You're the best person for Secretary of State.

John McHugh said...

I can't help but think Joan that the anti's are now employing a strategy of flooding you with anti-science comments to your posts. I know that you are strong and can stand up to them but the acrimony that is being expressed is disturbing. I feel strong concern for your personal safety and suggest you take care with posting some of these comments. They are frightening indeed which, as you point out, sells! They are using the same technique by flooding reports to HDOA Pesticides Branch every time a farmer hauls out their spray rig. Then they accuse HDOA of not taking regulatory action. This establishes a completely artifical baseline of illegitimate concern and ultimately wastes the limited resources that our State government allocates to the Department of Agriculture. As Scott points out, while HDOA is a small, if not the smallest, department of State government it took the highest hit (~40%) to its staffing when the Lingle Administration made their cuts so that the State could pay its bills. The real problem with Earth Justice's lawsuit is not that they giving a flying hoot about pesticide use by farmers. It is just another vehicle to allow them to put pressure on the "evil" seed companies with the ultimate goal of making the regulatory environment so restrictive that they give up their presence here. The sad thing is that this technique is going to take down small family farmers who have a hard enough time making a living in Hawaii's restrictive business climate and it will do nothing to protect the public from any perceived pesticide exposure. As I have said on a number of occassions, it is just really sad to see how agriculture in this State is being attacked. It would be so much more constructive if Earth Justice offered to work with the Hawaii Department of Agriculture to elevate agriculture here instead of doing their level best to bring it down!

Anonymous said...

Facebook is totally run by far left, antiscience idiots that seek to shut down all real science in favor of a science ratified ideology that ultimately is tyranny. The movement is deep in the government bureaucracy and unions who see themselves as the elite when the dust settles. This is just one example of how far it has gone: There is a huge demand within the Department of The Interior that ALL citizens not be allowed in Federal Parks or on any Federal lands at all. That all access be restricted to their offices, by only their permission. Sound familiar? Some of the audience at the recent hearing to expand non-fishing areas suspected that such a philosophy was behind the expansion of the various sea life protection zones in spite of the fact the Humpback is schedules to leave the endangered species list (in no small part to Hawaii boat captains and citizens who nurtured the image of the species to citizens around the world).
I was surprised, because I had just read such a radical, totally illegal, position just championed in a hard left nature publication.

Anonymous said...

Very few real scientist are anti-GMO. Cranks are anti-GMO. real science work to feed people or create valuable crops.

Anonymous said...

Bet these hippies, snowflakes, and trust babies don't mind the GMO dope they are smoking.

Anonymous said...

Da Hoos was for banning Roundup. I think he has backed off of this, not sure.
Anyone who has any land would have a hard time keeping their fences and roadways clean without this great product. Unless they had and army of weed-whackers.

I wish someone would ask Da Hoos if he was for a Roundup ban on Kauai.
If Da Hoos had a vote for every Roundup user on the island he would win by a landslide.

Anonymous said...

Here's what Chelsea Lyons Kent says about herself on FacebooK:
"About Chelsea.
I am totally awesome. My kids are totally awesome. My husband is totally awesome. I can fly. I can do anything better than you. I am super nice if I like you. If I don't like you I'll kick your ass. I see dead people."

She hooked up with the wrong guy. Bernie is not her boy; Trump is. Awesome is as awesome does.

Anonymous said...

Here is an article about safety regulations , big corporations and the US government. The article is accompanied by a great bibliographical list of sources. For those who love science and wonder how government works with science. Read and learn something new.

Manuahi said...

10:40 If you had glyphosate show up in you children's blood stream and are genuinely concerned about it and not just lying for effect as many of those who testified for 2491 did, then why the hell haven't you moved you family away from the "danger"? Or are you just another smoke-blowing liar as I suspect. I pity your children. Raised by a fake.

Anonymous said...

And then they apply for attorneys' fees. Nice business. LOL

Anonymous said...

Maybe this is a good time for commenters and even Joan to begin sharing links to science that proves gmo organisms that escape and breed freely in the environment are completely safe and no threat to the delicately balanced ecosystem. It is one thing to have an opinion, but another thing to have science backing up those opinions. This blog needs a good dose of unprejudiced scientific facts. So commenters, if you have links and scientific info on this issue, please share freely. It will encourage civil educational conversation. Too many opinions here and not enough facts.

Anonymous said...

Revolution! Since 2013, how much cancer clusters came about on Kauai?
Who died from pesticide exposure on Kauai?
Who on Kauai died or got cancer from GMO?
JFFG found nothing and offered the precautionary principle.
here's my point! Every aspect of this islands economy contributes to the financial health of this island. After 4 years of this island division we are all still here doing our own thing. And LIFE STILL GOES ON, freaking go figure that one out (sarcastic comment).

The big picture of life and the earths revolution is still going on with / without the reds n the blues.

So why! Do we keep on pushing on each other? Stupid! Kauai got lied to! And the fight is still the same shit on a different day in a different year.

Revolution the hell out of USA just for the money!
Freaking BABIES!

Anonymous said...

What they're doing on Facebook is the millennial version of book burning.

John Kauai said...

I can verify that growing anything (except guinea grass) on pineapple land is nearly impossible. One has to add a ton of amendments. (that "ton" is metaphorically speaking OK?)

I find a pick-ax is excellent at controlling guinea grass. Pop that root ball out of the ground and ensure the roots point to the sun.

Glyphosate takes too long to be effective.

I also find covering the area with black plastic sheeting (if there's a lot of it [guinea grass]) works well. Have to leave it in place for at least a month. Longer is better.

I have used glyphosate (in places I couldn't put down plastic or the guinea grass was too dense to pick-ax) and it worked all right after I applied it in copious amounts at least 3 times. It kept the area clear for about 18 months. Looks like I'll have to use it again. It may be the amount of rain that the last 6 months has brought has revived it (the guinea grass).

I try to be careful when I use glyphosate. I do believe it is has something to do with CKDu. Especially since no one has advanced an alternative theory.

I don't like the fact that wheat farmers use glyphosate on their crop just prior to harvest. (The CKDu theory is that using glyphosate on sugar cane is the cause.) There is a correlation between the rise in gluten intolerance and this use of glyphosate. Of course, correlation does not prove causation. Anyway, I still eat bread. I have friends who don't.

Truth-out is just another perspective on the news. It isn't Fox. It is an all right source. There isn't anywhere one can go any longer to find a totally non-partisan discussion of the news. (Maybe there never was.) Of course, when talking about GMO and glyphosate, there couldn't be one no matter what since there are way too many parameters in the equation.

There was a WaPo article (I think that was where it was, just last week and I already forget the source nothing new there) about how the bees really aren't all dying. Made a lot of sense. Until I read the comments to the article. They torpedoed the premise that "science" had found a solution to that problem.

Bottom line: most of us haven't a clue. So let us not take sides as if we do.

Oh, yeah. Everyone keeps telling me how beautiful Kauai is. When I'm not driving through a tunnel of guinea grass (which is very rare) it does seem that this might be true. But that experience is so rare, I just can't be sure I wasn't dreaming it.

(Don't get me started on the Hale Koa (some call them bean trees). Again the best control is a pick-ax. Glyphosate doesn't hurt them at all. Gotta get that "carrot" root.)

Anonymous said...

This blog is increasingly like a freak show. I like it!

Anonymous said...

John Kauai -- I have used glyphosate (in places I couldn't put down plastic or the guinea grass was too dense to pick-ax) and it worked all right after I applied it in copious amounts at least 3 times.

There you have it. The homeowners are the ones misusing herbicides, not the seed companies.

Anonymous said...

"John Kauai"; It's called "haole koa"...and some call kiawe "bean trees" inasmuch as the pods and beans are more substantial than haole koa's. Would you please keep your waffling to a reasonable length so as to not detract from either the useful information or pithiness provided by other commenters.

Anonymous said...

Congressional Republicans and presidential candidates, along with the anti-gmo, anti-vaccination movements ignore science. Go figure.

Anonymous said...

As you wish your highness.

Anonymous said...

And here we have an alternative to GMOʻs feeding the world-

John Kauai said...

7:14, thanks for the info.
Definitely Haole Koa and not mesquite.

7:09, "copious" is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Is 1 (or 2) five gallon jug in 3 years averaged over 3 acres misuse? Truth is though, that probably 80% of that went to the guinea grass growing along the road. Without that there's no where for walkers to get out of the way of the vehicles. The county does mow, but I believe I mow (the road) 3 times for every one of theirs. The neighbors seem to appreciate it.

It would be difficult for me to determine how large the area is that I use the glyphosate on. Also, the guinea grass is only really dense in a fraction of that. But, lets say it is between 1/4 and 1/2 an acre. I can't mow up the steep sides of the road. So, yes, it is "copious" in a concentrated area. Have a better idea?

Anonymous said...

I would think the "sabidong" (spelling)used long ago was worst than the glyphosate being used today. Today is the day of germs. Everyone goes to the store and uses the sanitizers before they touch the shopping carts. Our bodies don't build the immune system so we catch the "sniffles" every once in a while. Sooner or later we will evolve to look like "E. T." No one says anything about the Vog. Maybe its not man made, it is organic. No one says anything about the pollen or hayfever, it is organic. To some people just the sound of "GMO" gives them headaches and anxiety attacks. They haven't eaten the food and they react like the dog when he hears the bell. One day man will go into space with the monkey, our job will be to feed the trained monkey. lol.

Anonymous said...

9:49- Do you believe that the thousands of scientists around the world who question the safety of gmos "ignore science"?

Anonymous said...

To the commenters posting links to US Right To Know and The Ecologist, that is crap propaganda. Learn you and get you some legitimate science, not some fear-mongering B.S.

Anonymous said...

Ok. Let's buy our science from Monsanto. Fools

Anonymous said...

Glad we can depend upon you, Joan, to give us the truth. As opposed to those who fear-monger and depend upon propaganda. Mahalo for your dedication to truth.

John Kauai said...

You are probably right, but where does one go to find "legitimate science"?
Many "scientific journals" have been shown to be publishing "corporate propaganda".

Anyway, we sure do live in "interesting times".

Anonymous said...

Accusing others of propaganda? I havenʻt laughed so hard for quite a while! Mahalo nui loa! Please do not take this personally. We are all guilty of the same in one way or another. Including me. "Honesty, especially with ourselves, can be painful, but in the end, the rewards are great"- Carolina Perceival-Winn

Anonymous said...

Joan, Could you please share what publications you trust the most to provide us with truth, no propaganda, and no fear-mongering? Thanks.

Anonymous said...

John Kauai- Roundup can kill guinea grass in one application. If you want weeds to die quickly use Paraquat or Gramoxone(if you can get it), but they will grow back fast. Roundup kills the root.
But John, you will be hard pressed to find any rancher or real farmer pick axing "rootballs" of anything. Spray the fences, roads and ditches. Without Roundup the jungle will take over everything.
One man with 5 gallon sabedong can, can control more weeds than 20 men with picks, weedwhackers or machetes.
I'd like to see Da Hoos swing a machete for 10 minutes, before he breaks out in a swollen feminine queefing sweat.
.........Have Sabedong, Will Travel.

Anonymous said...

All you fear mongering weirdos who think government doesn't do enough, should be more afraid of the hepatitis spread, the chance for a zika outbreak, bacteria tainted foods, a missle from Korea, or a good ole natural disaster.

Anonymous said...

Though digging out the root balls of weeds is difficult, it does permanently get rid of the weed, when you spray it does come back, hence the huge problem all over the island now. get a shovel, wear long clothes cause they are itchy and dig out the root balls, and as suggested cover with weed cloth or plastic if you have a big patch of Guinea grass, after a few months, it will break down and makes lovely soil, but the grass seeds will continue to sprout, so you have to keep weeding the area which is easy when the grasses are small.
While pesticide is far easier, it doesn't kill the root ball and must be sprayed over and over.

It will take a lot of work to get rid of the invasive grasses and we will need every tool in the toolbox, some may rather dig them out, some spray, either way, we got to reduce the invasive grasses.

Anonymous said...

What's the biggest threat to Kauai's environment? It ain't gmos or pesticides.

Anonymous said...

With roundup you have brown weeds instead of green. It does stop it from getting bigger but does grow back. It's not a one time application. Nobody is debating that it saves time and money. The question, does the time and money savings justify the environmental and health risk? For me and my family it does not. I plant my fence line with a hedge on both sides so weeds can't grow. Weeds that do grow, get covered in cardboard and mulch. Ducks, chickens, and rabbits fertilize my fruit trees and vegetable gardens. I've never needed to apply roundup or any other chemical good or bad.
I don't own a 1,000 acres but do have more than most. The practiced I implement can and do work on large scale operations.

Anonymous said...

Fact- Roundup kills the weed with a one time application. Idiots need not apply.
The killed weeds will turn brown and decompose.
All weeds come back thru seeds and their seed sowers, birds.
Now what to do about the real pests. Pigs, Zika threat, High taxes, busy body politicians and people who try to tell others how to live.
Leave me, my Roundup, trees, fences/walls, dogs, cows, goats, gates and shotguns alone.

Anonymous said...

You all talking about RU and your cultural practices on how n what to do about vegetation you don't like. Everyone has their ideas n techniques that work n don't work.

What all you guys forgetting to mention is! We've been using this product for a LONG time now and there's no proof of RU killing anyone of us.
Again the big picture of life is with or without RU with or without people liking the product we are still here in paradise LIVING (!) with no proof that anyone on this island DIED from the exposure of RU.

So we all get mad each other for our preferences and don't like others views of life. For what, freaking life goes on with and without you.

All this talk and the action still doesn't show someone on on this island dying of RU.

You like the product! Use it.
You don't like the product! Don't use it.

John Kauai said...

My experience is that round-up does -not- kill with one application. YMMV.
Perhaps it depends on the weed. Or perhaps I didn't douse it with enough.

Once the area is cleaned out though (primarily using plastic sheeting) using the pick-ax to keep it clean is not difficult at all. It takes several weeks for a new guinea grass to show up in a (in my experience) 50x50 area. I use a 2lb pick-ax. Takes one swing, the weed is gone. Stays that way for several more weeks. My neighbor's land is totally covered with guinea grass, which he sometimes mows, but within a week of mowing, its as dense as ever.

Now, I admit this is not a "controlled experiment" and there are probably tons of variables that are not being looked at.

So, 9:11, you're right. Although, I'm not mad at anyone. I have been looking for flour that is labeled glyphosate free, but since I can't find one, I still bake bread.

Here, for your enjoyment, is a link to a farmer' wife (who is also a nurse), that discusses the use of glyphosate on wheat.

And here is an article that purports to link celiac disease with the use of round-up on Wheat.

You can all decide for yourself which is right (or if neither is right). One fact that seems to be indisputable is that Celiac Disease is on the rise (so are other auto-immune diseases). "Why" is not immediately clear.

Anonymous said...

Yeah because it's like a gun and every time you spray it, there should be dead bodies.

Ever heard of CANCER or highly toxic chemical compounds that cause cancers and stay in the soil, water and air for centuries as in nuclear or superfund sites.

But because we don't see dead bodies after it is sprayed then there's no proof that toxic chemicals kill people or cause cancers, autism, and other health risks.

Even with tools we are still way behind in reading and comprehending.

Anonymous said...

So we educate ourselves to death worrying the connection between cancer and the "G" instead of enjoying our lives here in paradise.


We're so freaking smart we forget to enjoy the great things in life. YET! We throw facts at each other without all the solutions.

we all tell ourselves should have, would have, could have, because we're soooo educated. We all still make mistakes in life. NO MATTER HOW MUCH EDUCATED WE ARE.

And if you've never made mistakes in your lives!

And John California, who can debate with him self. RIGHT!

Live life.
Worry about life.
Tough choice.
I'll probably make mistakes along the way. (Sarcasm)

Anonymous said...

What are we arguing about, some people like to do hard work and feel better not using pesticides, some like to work hard and are happy to use the pesticide to help , main thing is not to use the pesticides or the pic ax around kids, they both are dangerous. And John, you can avoid round up by buying organic and to anyone following johns advice, skip the ax and simply use a hula hoe so much easier.

Anonymous said...

6:36 a.m. That's your farming cultural practice. Great.

Now, give John California a call and both of you can share your landscaping manicuring practices and see which one John likes and or how he can make it (cultural practice) better (in his mind) for him to feel comfortable with himself contributing to Kauai's way of life.

As for you, congratulations. and keep on educating yourself, because with more education, your farm has always room for improvement. Always more room to maximize your profit potential.

And one last thing. Tell John California what's the "NAME" of the organic herbicide you use. Again, telling your side of the views, but offer John NO SOLUTION / ALTERNATIVE to pesticides (in this case herbicide). Again, educate John on his alternative cultural farming / landscaping practice.

BTW, I'm August 5, 2016 at 7:48 PM, I'm glad you tuned down your "red" tone. thank you.

Have a great week! Dam it, we've just started it! :-(

John Kauai said...

Hula hoes don't work on this grass. Cultivating a garden, they are fine.

Anonymous said...

hula hoe guinea grass gonna break one hula hoe, never going to get rid of the ball with that. maybe landscape areas around home or an already prepared garden area is about it for that tool...

Anonymous said...

The hula hoe was for the newly sprouted grass as they come up not the big ones. I was trying to be helpful , and I don't use any products, but I also just have a back yard, but as a gardener it is possible to get rid of grasses without pesticides and anyone with a bigger piece may be challenged. I am not a red shirt, but am trying to find common ground, the grasses obviously are a big problem and solutions of all kinds are needed.

Anonymous said...

6:19 p.m. given more information of your background. You lied blogging. You don't have a solution for an organic herbicide, your hula hoe is for you small little garden. you can't even visualize what we farmers / ranchers have challenges day in and day out.

I'm glad Mr. California and 2:56 talked about the HULA HOOP! I was wondering WHY!

hula hoeing an acre of guinea grass!

1 - 2 percent of the population feeding 98% - 99% of the population. and you still agree with 2491! (assuming) Not realistic. stop dumping on traditional farming. Your cultural practice CAN afford no pesticides. but PLEASE don't dump on others who's got a hell of a lot more square footage to manage. WITH LESS MAN POWER!!

Common ground! don't give Looshier your vote! he's the reason why there's no common ground. dividing this island, lying, bone head, not a leader for this island and definitely NOT a true friend (Kent & Mason).

Have a great week!

Anonymous said...

I was not a supporter of 2491, I have experience being a farmer though I am now too old to farm and just like to garden . I was not arguing or disagreeing, there is a need for people to know how to get rid of the invasive grasses in back yards, which my comments were addressing. The grasses are very invasive and fast growing and I was not disagreeing with the farmers who have a lot of land and use herbicides to take care of it, but suggesting ways to combat the grasses on smaller parcels. Since the grasses have spread regardless of being sprayed, digging them out is a decent solution. I never suggested a farmer should hoe large pieces of land. Let's try to not pigeonhole people and be more kind. Hooser does not get my vote, farmers do and those that support local lifestyle.